Table top E6 processor? Why not!

[MovieStuff]

Okay, since E6 is so simple to process, how about a new table top processor, specifically for 50 feet? A continuous feed cine-style processor seems like it would be fairly easy and compact to work with. It could be dry to dry in a fairly short period of time but, even if it were slowed down to accomodate lower processing temps, who cares? It will still be faster than sending the footage to a lab!

Interesting....... :idea:

Roger

[woods01]

When I was big on B&W home processing I thought about getting an old projector to set up something. But I don't have the technical know how to
slow down the motor and I don't really have the space in my apartment
to set up such a device so it was abandoned for the bucket and G-3 methods.
But I think its quite a possible project for E-6 and definatley for black and
white.

[marc]

Kodak offered one such thing for one of their Ektachrome stocks back in the 70's. It was a real simple film to process. But that stock was also discontinued by Kodak. If you are lucky, you can find them a thrift stores according to what I have heard. I have not been that lucky yet.

[Cranium]

Could it be done considerably cheaper that, say, a Bray?

[FearDoiche]

Would it be possible to also use this machine for black and white, obviously with different chemicals? Or would that be too complex to make affordably?

Also, could the size limit be moved up to 100 feet in order to capitalize on 16mm hobbyists?

I fully admit that I have no idea what I'm writing about in terms of funcionality. Just spitballing, here.

[ccortez]

Okay, since E6 is so simple to process, how about a new table top processor, specifically for 50 feet? A continuous feed cine-style processor seems like it would be fairly easy and compact to work with. It could be dry to dry in a fairly short period of time but, even if it were slowed down to accomodate lower processing temps, who cares? It will still be faster than sending the footage to a lab!

Interesting....... :idea:

Monobath and others have brought up the idea of a dry-to-dry processor for b/w. I think it's a fantastic idea that could also work for E6. Maybe C41 cross processing of the vision stocks as well! (OK, now I'm getting ahead of yourself.)

Count me in if you want some help fleshing out the idea, prototyping, spending $ to pursue the possibilities, whatever.

c.

[MovieStuff]

Could it be done considerably cheaper that, say, a Bray?

I dunno. I didn't see any prices. How much is the midget?

Roger

[Cranium]

I dunno on the Midget. I don't even know if that one will do 30M rolls.
I've seen E-series machines for around $1K used.

[monobath]

An e-series machine just went for something like $273. I just missed the auction. It would have made a fantastic small cine processor.

[Basstruc]

Okay, since E6 is so simple to process, how about a new table top processor, specifically for 50 feet?

Would it be possible to also use this machine for black and white, obviously with different chemicals?

Since E6, B&W negatives and color negatives (C41 instead of ECN2?) are all 3 steps processing, there's maybe a new possible market for you, roger.

[BK]

Okay, since E6 is so simple to process, how about a new table top processor, specifically for 50 feet?
Interesting....... :idea:
Roger

Are you going to build one for us Roger? It would be great if you do.

Bill

[reflex]

Are you going to build one for us Roger? It would be great if you do.

I think it's our duty to bug and pester him until MovieStuff Global comes out with one. My very own dry-to-dry S8 processor would a great way to guarantee I'd spend a fortune on 64T and chemicals.

And then, after shooting thousands of feet, I'd need to buy my very own Workprinter.

On second thought, Roger, please don't. My wife would kill me.

---

On a more serious note: The Tetenal E-6 processing kit (for 35mm slide work) requires temperatures of 100F +/- one degree. I know you could slow the processing and reduce temperature, but how far can you go? Anyone have experience?

[MovieStuff]

The Tetenal E-6 processing kit (for 35mm slide work) requires temperatures of 100F +/- one degree. I know you could slow the processing and reduce temperature, but how far can you go?

That's the real question. 8O

To keep this simple, I imagine this would idealy need to be room temperature so that the only electronics are the cine-transport. I mean, basically it is just a multi-compartmental vat with rollers that handle the film by the edges and a motor take up for the leader that pulls the film constantly through the different solutions. The film must keep moving to maintain agitation but the catch is that, the slower the film moves, the greater the volume of chemical it must pass through to avoid a complicated replenishment system. If the volume is too small, then there will be massive color shifts from one end of the roll to the other as the developer oxidizes and is used up by the emulsion.

So, for simple one-shot development, I would need information about the minimum volume of chemical required for a complete 50 foot roll under normal development temperatures and times, as per instructions. Then extrapolate from that the increase in chemical volume required as the speed and temperature is brought down to about 72 degrees (room temp).

Ugh! I was told there'd be no math..... :roll:

Roger
http://www.moviestuff.tv

[monobath]

Roger,

Temperture control is critical for consistent E6 processing. Have you ever seen one of the small Jobo rotary processors? The CPP-2, for example, has a heater with an accurate digital thermostat accurate to .1 degree Celcius. There is a large water resevoir holding about 4 gallons that is kept constantly moving by a pump. The pump brings water up from the tank to the tray on top where the drum rotates.

A homemade cine processor could have a similar water jacket surrounding all of the deep, narrow solution tanks. A pump to set up a current to keep the water moving would maintain all the chemicals at the right temperature.

You need air knives or soft rubber squeegees at the exit from each solution tank to minimize chemical transfer.

Rollers with a v-shaped profile should probably work well to ensure that solution gets to all parts of the film. The rollers should probably be on stainless steel wire frames that fit down into the tanks so they can easily be removed for replacement of damaged rollers.

The Kodak H24 Module 15 PDF document deals with processing black and white films, but it has a good basic description of how to build a processing machine and a useful diagram of one, including the final film dryer. There are also recommendations on the materials to use.

I don't think the bleach in the E6 process is as caustic as R-9 or R-10 used in black and white reversal processing, but I'm not really certain of that. That needs to be verified. In any case, I'd suggest that the chemical tanks be made of type 316 stainless steel except for the bleach tank which should be some type of plastic. The plastic should be one of the ones that Kodak says is acceptable for R-10 bleach and R-9 bleach. That way you could use the processor for E6 or B&W.

Personally, I'd prefer a processor made for Kodak's 6 step E6 process, as I think it yields better results than the 3 step processes. You can always run fewer steps by leaving some tanks dry or filled with plain water.

Note that for the Kodak 6 step process, you need nine solution tanks. The steps are first developer, wash, reversal bath, color developer, pre-bleach, bleach, fixer, wash, final rinse. That final rinse is not just a wash. It's a mild surfactant (wetting agent) wth an anti-bacterial additive of some sort.

It might also be a good idea to figure out a way to handle remjet removal. I don't know if the 64T will have remjet, but it would be nice to be able to handle such films. For that, you'll need a warm alkaline bath and a series of water jet sprays. I think. Another research item.

[gianni1]

Small table please, as in small (tempering box) size. Also, not a dedicated setup, but a kit that's out of the way when not used. I'm looking for a modern daylight tank and reels for hand processing. Motorised would be good for weekend film classes, but probably too costly for amateur usage.

If motorised, then modular too. Two 3 baths make a six-bath; a dryer unit, and a 'Telecine' unit :lol: , etc...

Gianni