64T: "seperating the men from the boys"

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Scotness
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64T: "seperating the men from the boys"

Post by Scotness »

I've all the things I've read about the axing of K40 this is probably the most succinct:
I think it's a good step forward. I find K-40 to be the most limmiting of all existing stocks. when it comes to 16mm reversal, i'll shoot 100D over K-40 any day of the week, and am really excited for this new film. more labs will mean more availability, slightly lower contrast will mean slightly better transfers. K-40 was too slow in the winter, and too contrasy in the summer.. the extra speed will come in handy. Most of the bad publicity is coming from the cheap camera mailer/walmart people. I own 4 high end super 8 cameras that cost me less than a new miniDV.. they all notch for 64T, and I own a Sekonic. I work hard for my money, but would rather pay extra for good processing and prep. The updated Super 8 portfolio will seperate the men from the boys.
source: http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004 ... topic=6622

It's a shame it's going but let's face it the only thing K40 has going for it is the cheapness of purchase and developing, and the fine grain. That makes it easy to use in some ways but ironically not in others - given how hard it is to light for.

The point is if you're serious about film making and Super 8 film making it's far from the best choice of stocks, all things considered.

If the problem for Kodak is the cost of the processing part than perhaps they could consider selling it non-process paid.

But I see it as being far from the end of Super 8 - and sure some people will drop off from using Super 8 because the process will no longer be as easy - but if that means that the gauge is moved to a more sustainable economic base for Kodak then it's probably in a better position to continue than it was before when there were more users.

I'm looking forward to this stock and giving it a go developing it at home.

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Post by sooper8fan »

Most of the bad publicity is coming from the cheap camera mailer/walmart people.
I work hard for my money, but would rather pay extra for good processing
I agree with both of these statements to the fullest. I don't mean to offend anyone, but I won't even buy socks at Wal-Mart, much less get pictures developed...especially Super8 film!
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Post by escubria »

I don't mean to offend anyone, but I won't even buy socks at Wal-Mart, much less get pictures developed...especially Super8 film!
This is a ridiculous statement, Wal-Mart collect the stock then send it to Dwayne's or Switzerland, they don't develop it!
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Post by ccortez »

sooper8fan wrote: I agree with both of these statements to the fullest. I don't mean to offend anyone, but I won't even buy socks at Wal-Mart, much less get pictures developed...especially Super8 film!
i'm only allowing myself a "me too" post b/c i've so conclusively and exhaustively stated my concurring opinion on this forum in the past.

that said... Me Too!
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Post by ccortez »

escubria wrote: This is a ridiculous statement, Wal-Mart collect the stock then send it to Dwayne's or Switzerland, they don't develop it!
No, they don't develop it, but they play middleman where none is necessary and add variables to the "will my film be properly handled, developed and returned to me?" question.
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Post by sooper8fan »

Wal-Mart collect the stock then send it to Dwayne's or Switzerland, they don't develop it!
Obviously, I didn't know this. I guess when somebody says they're getting their film processed at Wal-Mart, I assume that they are indeed getting their film processed at Wal-Mart. When I say I get my film processed at Dwayne's, where do you think I get my film processed?

It sounds like you're a Wal-Mart user, so if Wal-Mart is sending it to Dwayne's, and you know this...why not cut out the middle man and just send it to frickin' Dwayne's yourself?

p.s. I still won't buy my socks at Wal-Mart.
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Post by timdrage »

you know this...why not cut out the middle man and just send it to frickin' Dwayne's yourself?
Apparently it is/was actually cheaper via walmart!!! I'm not even in the US, but that's what I gather from people's posts.
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Post by LastQuark »

sooper8fan wrote:so if Wal-Mart is sending it to Dwayne's, and you know this...why not cut out the middle man and just send it to frickin' Dwayne's yourself?
It cost almost twice more sending it to Dwaynes direct. This is a distribution issue. Dwaynes would rather take order in bulk at the same time than take care of handling bits and pieces received everywhere.
 
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Post by sooper8fan »

Interesting.....when you guys say it's cheaper, are you referring to price in USD?
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Post by Uppsala BildTeknik »

sooper8fan wrote:Interesting.....when you guys say it's cheaper, are you referring to price in USD?
It is cheaper in dollars, yen, rubels or kronor.

It is cheaper to give a cart to Walmart who sends it to Dwaynes than to send it to Dwaynes yourself. Walmart has a BIG discount and still makes profit. Dwaynes wants those big loads os Walmart carts to process so they do it "cheap" for Walmart.
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Post by Evan Kubota »

Wal-Mart wants $4.88 plus tax. You don't even interact with any employees there, so there really is no risk of the film getting lost that is different from sending it direct to Dwayne's. You write "K14 process super 8 film" under special instructionss on the envelope, drop it in the box, and track your order with the 1-800 number. It usually takes about a week and a half.

I can't see any reason to spend $9 plus shipping both ways to send it directly to Dwayne's.

I think the basic contention of this thread - that using K40 is somehow less professionally valid and implies the use of cheap cameras - is false. I have a Nikon R10 and Nizo S560 and I'm going to use K40 where possible on my upcoming project because I *like* the low grain and distinct color characteristics.

The fact that it's cheaper to process is also great - I don't believe for a second that paying $15 to a lab to process E64 will make them to a better job than having it done at Dwayne's through Wal-Mart. The first roll of S8 I ever shot came back perfectly processed. No complaints here.
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Post by Rich »

I like K40 not only for how it looks but because I can put it in anything I find at a garage sale. Sorry if that offends the elitist snobs that think you need expensive gear to make a cool movie but the fact is that the camera is only a tiny fraction of what goes into the finished product.

Saying that K40 isn't for serious filmmakers is offensive and untrue. And who says that Super 8 is supposed to be serious anyway? Some people just want an easy way to shoot cool movies they can project in their livingroom, not everyone is a wannabee Hollywood dork.

BTW... it is "separate" but I bet you didn't think that a K40 user would notice, did you?
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Post by Evan Kubota »

"The updated Super 8 portfolio will seperate the men from the boys."

Again, no, I don't see that it will. It might drive people to 16mm, or it might make some people stop shooting S8, but that's because the processing is going to become far more expensive. It might separate the rich man from the poor man, but that's about it. I fail to see how *taking away* a stock can be seen as "good" or "a step in the right direction" by any true enthusiast. If they just added E64, great, but there seems to be a prevailing opinion that taking K40 away will somehow advance S8 as a format. That's bullshit.
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Post by Rich »

Evan Kubota wrote:"The updated Super 8 portfolio will seperate the men from the boys."

Again, no, I don't see that it will. It might drive people to 16mm, or it might make some people stop shooting S8, but that's because the processing is going to become far more expensive. It might separate the rich man from the poor man, but that's about it. I fail to see how *taking away* a stock can be seen as "good" or "a step in the right direction" by any true enthusiast. If they just added E64, great, but there seems to be a prevailing opinion that taking K40 away will somehow advance S8 as a format. That's bullshit.
Amen.
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Post by Actor »

sooper8fan wrote:Interesting.....when you guys say it's cheaper, are you referring to price in USD?
Wal-Mart will charge me $4.88 plus 7% sales tax for a total of $5.22.

Duanes will charge me $9.00 and I think that includes return shipping unless I request FedEx. Outward shipping is about $1.00 depending on how many I ship at once and the total weight of the package. On top of this I pay $0.63 use tax unless I falsify my state tax return. Total $10.63. Wal-Mart savings is $5.41. This is in U.S.D.

K-40 has been costing me about $12.29 direct from Kodak if you include tax and shipping.

Total per cartridge including raw stock, processing, all tax and shipping is $17.51 via Wal-Mart.

Via Dwayne's it is $22.92.

I anticipate the price of Ektachrome 64T will be about $17 each with tax and shipping. Processing will cost about $18 or more with tax and shipping. Total $35. Double what I used to pay.

Price IS an issue.

It will not separate the men from the boys. It will separate the rich from the poor, the truly committed (or commitable) from the enthusiast.

Some will pay the price.
Some will move to 16mm.
Some will move to B&W.
Many will move to video, turning the "declining market" into a self fulfilling prophecy.
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