Hello EKTACHROME 64T, goodbye Kodachrome in Super8

Post by **monobath** » Tue May 10, 2005 3:11 am

I'll shoot the 64T. I just need to understand its characteristics. Doesn't sound like EPY 64T, since that film could not be described as super-saturated (but it is my favorite tungsten transparency film, btw).

Kodak says

Kodak will give customers at least a year to process their Kodachrome Super 8 film with Kodak or to seek an alternative.

I wonder how long the "alternative" (Dwayne's) will continue to process Super 8mm and regular 8mm Kodachrome. If they are committed to processing it for several more years at least (remember 16mm is not affected by this announcement) then I'm going to stock up on K40 and freeze it. I love the stuff. I hope people start dumping K40 below market price on eBay soon. Especially sound carts, since I've never gotten an opportunity to shoot some. (Yeah, I know the sound isn't the best, but that's not the point..)

John Schwind is now selling K40 in regular 8mm. I imagine he has a fair stock of the stuff. That would be a real bummer if Dwayne's stopped processing it. Maybe I'll call Dwayne's and ask in a few days when I get time.

Upbeat, Upbeat, Upbeat. Yaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy!!!! NEW S8 REVERSAL STOCK. Yaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy!!!!

Post by **super8man** » Tue May 10, 2005 3:59 am

Yeah, I read that as the CLOCK IS NOW TICKING on the days of super 8 being MANUFACTURED by Kodak in super 8 form. Yes, as long as Dwaynes processes super 8 K14 carts for us, then we should be good for a couple of years maybe as long as Dwaynes processes regular 8.

Think about it, as long as 16mm continues, there is no reason in the world to stop processing the super 8 version of it. What, they are going to say "no, as of this date, we can no longer operate this machine?" I have my doubts.

So, the million dollar question is, do we stock up on K40 in super 8 form now and HOPE Dwaynes continues to run the K14 process for the next ten years? Or, sell every camera we own NOW to get one good one that will render quality images on an expensive K64T filmstock? Or, sell everything and go 16, and never look back?

Post by **monobath** » Tue May 10, 2005 4:09 am

Well, since I shoot mainly black and white anyway, I certainly wouldn't sell any of my cameras.

Post by **Evan Kubota** » Tue May 10, 2005 4:28 am

"I hope people start dumping K40 below market price on eBay soon."

Sorry to say, but I don't see this happening. If anything it'll be the other way around. Tomorrow I'm placing an order for some K40. I considered buying a lot to store for the future, but who knows how long the processing will last. I'll probably get enough for the rest of this year, and after that either switch to B&W or the new reversal stock, and start paying a lot more for processing... :evil:

Post by **monobath** » Tue May 10, 2005 6:23 am

Possibly you're right. I'm going to stock up too, and shoot it often.

Post by **T-Scan** » Tue May 10, 2005 8:14 am

Dwayne's should handle K-40 S-8 indefinately. It will continue in 16mm and slides, so there is no reason why they can't. The Swiss address will be done after a year. I'm not even going to bother stocking up.. I like this 64T better already.

Post by **Evan Kubota** » Tue May 10, 2005 8:25 am

You prefer to pay $15 + shipping for processing?

Post by **Uppsala BildTeknik** » Tue May 10, 2005 8:38 am

Apparently this came as a surprise for Kodak Sweden, they heard about it this morning and had no idea it was coming..... 8O

Post by **robbie** » Tue May 10, 2005 8:46 am

Dark , Sad Day in Film Art Production. Depressing. the K40 aesthetic like k25 we will never experience again. gone. nothing last forever not even the good things. perhaps it will remain available in Reg.8mm.

Post by **LastQuark** » Tue May 10, 2005 9:10 am

Evan Kubota wrote:You prefer to pay $15 + shipping for processing?

With swarms going to e6 processing, supply and demand says there will be competition and it will bring the price down later on. Besides, I will rather develop it myself at home so it will turn out to be cheaper than K40.

Post by **Patrick** » Tue May 10, 2005 9:23 am

I hate to sound grim but the replacement of Kodachrome 40 with Ektachrome 64T could be Kodak's attempt to kill the super 8 market. How many super 8 cameras out there would register 64asa film correctly?? Kodak obviously knew very well that many existing super 8 cameras would not be able to expose this new film stock correctly, in particular auto exposure cameras. Hence, the market will shrink even more, possibly down to dangerously low levels. For the last few years, I have heard people say that super 8 production and processing is a big headache for Kodak and it was speculated that Kodak really wants to simply end it (I cannot really comment on this as it is little more than theories.)

Post by **sunrise** » Tue May 10, 2005 9:37 am

Patrick wrote:I hate to sound grim but the replacement of Kodachrome 40 with Ektachrome 64T could be Kodak's attempt to kill the super 8 market.

No. Quite the opposite. It is Kodak's decision that they want the format to be taken seriously and not used as an amateur format. The only way to shake it off was to stop the film type that had that look.

michael

Post by **Evan Kubota** » Tue May 10, 2005 9:42 am

"With swarms going to e6 processing, supply and demand says there will be competition and it will bring the price down later on."

I don't humor myself by thinking that our niche is large enough to really see any benefit from competition among labs. B&W reversal is extremely cheap to process but the costs are still $10 a cart or more anywhere you look in the US.

I might start home processing as well, but is it possible to get reasonably "clean" footage with minimal equipment and without expert help? I don't want a bucket processed look, and I want to buy as little equipment as possible...

Post by **T-Scan** » Tue May 10, 2005 9:49 am

Evan Kubota wrote:You prefer to pay $15 + shipping for processing?

Yes i do, I haven't used mailers in a long time. even with K-40 I use Dwayne's direct and pay the extra shipping for fed ex same week return. I like my films returned fast and prepped onto one roll, not arriving 3 weeks later in staggered chewed up envelopes. And there is no plot to kill S-8 by introducing a new film that will be better than K-40. They are keeping S-8 alive by catering to semi pro. Kodak is using common sense. Unless the new reversal completely sucks, it will most likely be the preferred choice over K-40, even by those who are crying about it now.. and sales in K-40 won't be justifiable. There are plenty of cameras around that meter from 25-400ASA, at least all the best ones do.

Post by **Patrick** » Tue May 10, 2005 5:27 pm

True, there are many super 8 cameras that will meter 25 - 400asa but not all of these will specifically meter for 64asa. My biggest worry about this new film is the thickness (or lack of.) The one thing which really frustrated me about Ektachrome 7240 was the slight softness I got in the footage, compared to K40. Others have complained about this softness too with the previous Ektachrome. Some contribute this to the fact that 7240 is a very thin film stock and may not remain precisely in the focal plane. So if 64T is as thin as 7240, we can expect lots of soft footage courtesy of Kodak!

I also have to add that I am suspicious in regards to Kodak's reasons for discontinuing Kodachrome 40 in super 8 as outlined in their statement. They claim that people have shifted away from using K40 for their home movies because of the rising popularity of recent digital technology. Though hasnt this been the same scenario in relation to analogue video for at least the last 15 years???

Kodak also stated that Kodachrome involves a complicated processing system and there are fewer and fewer labs in the world that can cater to it's developing....this, to me, does sound like a plausible reason for it's end until they stated that they will continue to supply K40 in 16mm. Every man and his dog knows that K40 is by far the best selling super 8 stock of all, and yet Kodak claims that marketplace dynamics dictate that it's production must be ceased. 16mm K40 on the other hand, represents one of the very few 16mm reversal stocks available. There are so few 16mm reversal stocks in existance because demand for them is so very low these days. Fuji stopped production of it's 16mm reversal films years ago. Take a look at the huge selection of 16mm negative films available from both Kodak and Fuji to get a sense of how big the market is for 16mm neg films. And despite all this, Kodak claims outright that it will continue to produce this particular 16mm reversal stock which requires an outdated, complicated developing process that very few labs in the world actually handle. I do not have the figures to prove this but I seriously doubt that the sales of 16mm K40 outweigh sales of super 8 K40!

Something sounds fishy here.....