Ultra slow motion

[espo]

I have a feeling a saw a topic on this a while back, but I was wondering... If I were to soup up an old 18fps S8 camera to run at a very high speed, what would I have to take into consideration?

What maximum fps can you physically run a S8 cartridge at?

What modifications would I need to make to the shutter etc...?

Is it possible? :?

Any suggestions gratefully received...

[mathis]

Go with a Baulieu 4008ZM4, it will run with 80fps. Or with a 4008ZM2, this will run up to 70fps.

[christoph]

well, i can see the following problems:

- motor might break if you hook it up with to high voltage.
- mechanics inside the camera (wheels/belts/etc) might break
- registration will eventually get really poor
- film gets stressed because of cartridge design

i'd say 80fps is about the limit with a general super8 camera... maybe you could get 100+ out of a beaulieu 4008/6008 with acceptable results.

++ christoph ++

ps: in my own experimentations with a canon 310xl i failed to get get the speed noticably faster even if i changed voltage from nominal 3V to 8V... might try higher voltages soon ;)

[Alex]

I had a Sankyo CME-440 HI-Focus camera modified. The mod enables the camera to go from zero to around 45 FPS with a variable speed pot. My idea was to expose a scene from completely overexposed then go into normal exposure by "ramping up" the speed dial from a few frames a second to 45 FPS.

The effect never quite worked as well as I would have liked, I could never get the exposure to go completely normal from complete overexposure at the 4-9 FPS starting point.

Most Super-8 cameras have some kind of voltage regulator on them to prevent the camera motors from burning out. I don't know exactly why (I had the mod done by someone else) but the Sankyo was easier to mod versus other cameras, but it seemed to max out in the mid 40's.

[audadvnc]

Burst speeds of 40 or 48 fps can be found on several of the more sophisticated cameras. But you are risking the mechanism. These cameras are all 25+ years old, and if you break it you've bought it. Besides, Super 8 wasn't designed for high speed photography.

Perhaps this is an application for a 16mm high speed camera rental or purchase off eBay.

[Alex]

"Normal" Slow-motion on a Super-8 camera is usually 32FPS to around 54 frames per second. Then a distinct few cameras go even faster, Beaulieu can go up to 72 frames per second, I think Leicina can go even faster than that, depending on which version you get your hands on.

Then one other strange beast made in the 70's will go up to 300 frames per second although they only guarantee up to 250 frames per second.

A film loop must be made from the film cartridge and that goes around a sprocket wheel drive, aka pin registered. Although I discovered that when I used such a camera that sideways weave could result, but from a vertical stabilization point of view, looked pretty stable.

[leadlike]

If you tie in a higher voltage, you probably can ramp it up to 12 volts (the motor-you may blow some caps before you get there, though-quite thrilling!) as most of those motors run optimally within the range of 6 to 12 volts.

I'd say you could get away with running it up into the mid forties as well, but it would probably just be easier to get a super 8 camera with a 36 fps button, like the canon 518.

I have shot some footage with my beaulieu at 70 fps, and the results are okay with hand-held footage. Anything I shot from the tripod delivered an obviously sloppy registration, as the cartridge is really beyond its limits.

They made some high speed super 8 cams that pulled some of the film out of the cart and ran it through a mechanism to achieve good registration on a real pressure plate-I think they ran up to 250 fps.

[espo]

Cool, thanks. The 250fps sounds quite exciting. I was thinking of ripping out the motor and sticking something a bit more meaty on the side. I haven't decided which camera to sacrifice yet.

[reedsturtevant]

Then one other strange beast made in the 70's will go up to 300 frames per second although they only guarantee up to 250 frames per second.

For the record, according to the 1976 Mikolas/Hoos Handbook of Super 8 Production the 250fps pin-registered slow motion camera was the Visual Instrumentation Corporation, Model SP-1, Cine 8 Camera.

[steve hyde]

I would be inclined to run the film at 54fps, which is standard and reasonably stable slo-mo for S8 cameras - then slow it down more in post. I wonder how slow one can go in post before the images start to fall apart.??? Video tape format would be a variable to control in such an experiment. My guess (and it's only a guess) is that slow motion footage captured to mini-DV would fall apart before footage captured to DigiBeta or SP..

I suppose the question I'm driving at is: what is the best method for going ultra-slow using Super 8 - in camera, in post or a balanced combination of both?

Steve

[reedsturtevant]

The Visual Instrumentation Corporation Model SP-1 sounds neat because it has precision speed control (10fps through 250fps), is pin-registered and takes C-mount lenses.

I googled it but found only one result. An article in the Journal of Arachnology where scientists used it for research on pre-copulatory behavior of aquatic spiders:

When close enough to touch the female, the male performs a courtship display consisting of rapid leg tapping, which, with the female's leg-waving, results in prolonged leg interplay between the sexes.

8O