Cutting ties with Pro 8mm

[FILM-THURSO]

Go Tiger go! RAAAARR :twisted:

[thebrowniecameraguy]

I haven't ever dealt with Pro 8mm because of the problems everone else has had. Before I joined this forum the only Super 8mm source I knew of was ordering from Kodak via John Schwind. So, that all changed when I realized I had resources all over the country; but, I never used Pro8.

I know they do processing as well as stock Kodak films in all formats, yet I never had the inclination to use them. John Schwind is much more resonable and responsible. Plus, he is one person doing this, Pro 8 is a large company with people now always as knowledgable about things.

Assumptions aside, have you all really had this many problems with them?


Jordan

[supermag400_inventor]

I think what happened is this... Phil Vigeant at Pro 8 read everyone's letters on this forum, including mine. In fact, I'm the one who told him to read them. I thought, as a friend, he should know what was being said about his company. He got pissed off at me because I said it was possible his film stocks may not be perfect and his customer service needs attention. So, he got an attitude and told me "No more Free Film or services anymore". He blamed me for the bad press about his company. I told him, it's not my fault your employees treat customers like shit. I may be accused of switching to the enemy, but I have to think of my own reputation and that of my invention. If his products were so good and his service on the spot, he wouldn't have so many complaints. To correct a problem is just common sense. To ignore the problem is plain business suicide.

I think that what happened is he got his ego dented by the truth. You can't treat your customers like their not important, no matter how small their order is. That's not good business, just bad judgement.

[Steve P.]

Assumptions aside, have you all really had this many problems with them?

Well, I can put in a kinder word about Pro8: I haven’t dealt with them in a couple of years, but whenever I have called I’ve gotten competent and satisfactory service or help over the phone (essentially, I think, that amounts to not keeping me on hold forever plus basic courtesy from employees who are able to answer the questions I have).

At the time, I bought a pack of TRI-X rolls through them, film + developing, that all came back perfect and promptly. No developing spots, generous leader. I was satisfied.

Ultimately, I decided they were expensive, but I didn’t have a “problem”.

[supermag400_inventor]

I don't doubt that they are somewhat competent people. Otherwise they would be out of business. However, if there have been numerous errors with lots of customers orders, then it's a matter of odds. You might be one of that top percentage that has gotten the good stuff or satisfactory service. No business is 100 % perfect. But when there is a growing number of people disatisfied with their company, it's obvious to me that something is wrong somewhere. I've been confronted with a resistant attitude by them myself when I've called there to check on my test films. They acted rude and disinterested. I know everyone has a bad day once in a while, but come on!

Too many people have stopped using Pro 8 for the same reasons. Poor quality products, bad service and high costs. After a while, you have to step back and re-think your involvement with a company like this.

[Nigel]

So Phil...was Ignorant to the way people fell about him and his business??

I find that hard to buy--If he didn't know then he really is a fool.

Good Luck

[christoph]

Phil Vigeant at Pro 8 read everyone's letters on this forum, including mine.

kinda strange that he doesn't respond... but then again, what can you say if most people complain about your service?

tree things that i consider important for a buisness:
quality, customer service and price.
you can afford to be lazy on one out of those, but not on two, let alone three.

obviously, quite a lot of people are not happy with them... and that just cant be coincidence.
++ christoph ++

[lostinspace]

Yeah their owner Phil Vigeant is in total denial. They have got to have the absolute worse customer service in the industry! Any industry. I mean even the frickin DMV has better customer service than they do.

And GOD help you if you should have to deal with Monica, "The Gatekeeper", who has downright contempt for everyone she deals with on the phone. I can hear it in her voice everytime I've called. It's like under her breath I can hear her mumblin', "hurry up loser, I've got more important things to do than to listen to your pathetic problems". Then it's, "That'll be $950 + $120 for shipping sir", for processsing and transfering your 3 rolls of film. Good grief!

The only good thing they had going there was dealing with the guy who used to handle their camera rentals, Jerry--real nice guy--or Doug, who used to be their best colorist. They've since moved on to form their own super 8 company--Spectra film and video.

Anyway folks, Caveat Emptor!

[supermag400_inventor]

OH..MY..GOD! Is that true? The people that started Spectra film are former employee's of Phil? That explains a lot. No wonder he's got a bug up his ass. That's got to hurt. When your underlings go off to become your competition, you're going to strike out like a cornered animal.

Well, as the saying goes, when the ship's going down, only the captain stays aboard.

[Evan Kubota]

"Then it's, "That'll be $950 + $120 for shipping sir", for processsing and transfering your 3 rolls of film. Good grief!"

LOL! It's probably like the Wizard of Oz, right? You put in your order and then a few minutes the little window pops open and a random price is quoted.

I wouldn't deal with that place unless there was no other choice. Word spreads quickly on the internet and shady dealers gain a reputation fast. Obviously this guy doesn't give a rats ass about normal business from customers. Let him think the big corporate jobs will be enough and don't give him the courtesy of your business, then he will eventually sink and die.

[matt5791]

Well I have met Phil Vigeant on a number of occasions and spoken to him at length on a number of occasions.

I have to say:

1. He has always gone out of his way to help me - and I am not a large corporate customer of course. On at least three occasions he has taken a minimum of an hour out of his day to talk to me face to face and also on at least three occasions I have had extensive telephone conversations where he has been extremely helpful.

2. I have found the service and quality of product to be perfectly ok.

3. Phil Vigeant is a super 8 enthusiast, or more accurately obsessive. He just lives and breathes super8. All my long conversations were because he seems to just love chatting about the format and helping.

4. He took over Super8sound 20 years ago and started running it as a proper business. I believe at the time it was virtually bankrupt.

5. Supermag inventor - I think you are making a big mistake burning bridges.


These are just my own personal findings based on first hand contact and evidence. That's all I can say.

Others may have had bad experiences, which is a shame.

Matt

[supermag400_inventor]

Please don't get me wrong. I have meet with Phil at his business in Burbank and we went to lunch and discussed the Supermag and film. He is a very nice and interesting guy, devoted to super 8. There is not any doubt about that. However, being a nice guy and a good businessman don't always occur together. I'm not very business wise sometimes. (Like placing bad test results on the web site) But I know when to keep my distance from trouble. Pro 8 would not have this reputation if he treated all of his customers with the respect and coutesy they should be getting. It's not Phil being rude to customers. I believe it is however, his responcibilty to make his employees tow the line. They work for him after all, and he has the last word. If he really cared about what customers thought, he'd crack down on his people and get his ship sailing upright.

This is only my opinion. Some people may feel differently. But, I have to shield my reputation and my products from the avalanche.

[Santo]

Juno, I'm amazed you'd even take note of a project I mentioned off-hand after being asked about it, thanks for your interest.

Having seen a fair bit of Pro8 originated cart-based material, it's as stable as any other super 8 footage. Most of super8 stability depends on the camera used (condition and design). And, in case you don't remember, one of the last posts S8Booster put up was with his claimed "bad perfs". Unfortunately for him, I caught him in the act of making stuff up -- as he usually does -- and pointed out that his photograph was of a custom roll of polyester-based Fuji stock and not the usual Kodak film material.

One of his other classics was when "the Booster" added texture to some 50d super 8 stills because it looked too good next to his K40 stuff and, I guess, he had developed some kind of vandetta against Pro8, which I think mostly stemmed from his determination to "boost" reversal film over negative stock. I never did call that clown on that one. Maybe I'll drag it out if he ever shows his face on here again, but it seems kind of pointless beating a whipped dog -- and I really do enjoy his postings on here as they have a great deal of entertainment value.

You, Juno, are not worth wasting any more key strokes on. :lol: You're just not very entertaining.

What do you mean recent developments? I've got a budget with their "short film package" all drawn up. What do you mean? Are you talking about short ends?

Wake up dumb ass! ANYTHING BUT Pro 8mm sucks! The most professional 8mm film is available from Kodak. Of course with that short film that you are doing the jittery images that you will surely get from Pro 8mm ( due to poorly perfed stock) might lend well with psychotic break you or your character or YOU are supposed to have. The higher grain films are what you need to depend on Pro( anything but) 8mm for. If they are jittery, and they are sure to be, that should ad to your's or your characters or YOUR feeling of psychosis.

[mattias]

santo, you just look like a fool when you hold everything against everyone all the time. can you at least for once discuss the issue at hand without dragging old garbage into it? i'm sure you'll responds with something like "and that's coming from someone who blah blah blah" and be my guest. it would be the best proof of my point i could get.

/matt

[Juno]

Based on Phil's response, I could deduct a few things. Possibly he is so naive that he does not know about this board already and recently became aware of it and is in shock of other's oppinions about pro 8mm. Or, he has been aware of it for a long time, decided to avoid it while dealing in vain about his companies problems, and hoping that super 8 mag man was his ressurection that would save his reputation only to find, in dissappointment that super 8 mag man is slowly being enlightened to the facts. This, unfortunately, has the opposite effect on helping his reputation. It only drills it into the ground faster because someone who used his stocks for free isn't returning the "favor" by kissing up and verbalizing the party's propaganda. He is speaking outright on the facts in spite of the fact that there is an existing partnership in which Super 8 mag man is getting free resources.