PLEASE HELP ME!!! Using filters with B&W!!!

[newsuper8er]

Hey everyone!

Im starting a super 8 short in a couple of weeks and recently started reading up on filters. I was planning on using Plus X (to get a finer grain structure). One worry i had was that i would not get enough contrast, as some Plus X footage i have seen has been more grey than B&W. Considering my film will be "Film Noir", i have been worried even more.

Then i saw this:



Just what im looking for . . . but could i use this inside with aritificial lights?? The filtered area of the image is the look i want. For inside and outside.

Also if i could use this inside, could i just use a (cheaper) still photography filter and stick it to the lens of my Bauer? (not literally, of course )


Well anyway, i start shooting in a couple of weeks, and i cant believe i overlooked this before now! Any help would be great!!!

Steven.

[Santo]

The reason that looks like it does, if it were a real example, is because daylight/sunlight has a lot of blue light in it. Using a red filter darkens anything that's blue in black and white.

If you're shooting indoors, using tungsten or halogen lights, there isn't as much blue. In fact, it's kind of orange in colour. The red filter will not work to increase significant contrast. It will only cost you f/stops and make your life more difficult.

If increased contrast indoors is all you're after with black and white, and you're transfering to digital for editing, extra contrast is easy to add in post. This is one area where digital post production is very useful. Contrast can be increased or decreased -- but there is no recovering lost resolution or blown out bright highlights by overexposing negatives, for example.

Keep in mind that is also a "simulated image". What does that mean? That means they did what I'm suggesting -- they modified that still in digital post.

And I've never had a problem with my plus-x looking as gray as that "unretouched" image. It always looks pretty "noirish" exposed properly with a strong key light and less fill.

[MovieStuff]

The reason that looks like it does, if it were a real example, is because daylight/sunlight has a lot of blue light in it. Using a red filter darkens anything that's blue in black and white.

If you're shooting indoors, using tungsten or halogen lights, there isn't as much blue. In fact, it's kind of orange in colour. The red filter will not work to increase significant contrast. It will only cost you f/stops and make your life more difficult.

I agree. In fact, if anything, using the red filter could actually lower your contrast if the lights are warm in nature! Just the opposite of what you want. of course, much as to do with the color of the clothing and make up you use as well as the props. My advice is to do shoot some black and white stills that you can process up quickly for tests. No need to shoot blind.

Roger

[newsuper8er]

Thanks guys!

I completely understand what your saying. I wont be using a red filter inside then. Is there a different colour filter i could use inside? or should i just use very bright direct lighting to achieve my "Film Noir"?

If it helps i have a Lowel kit. 2 x 500w omni lights and one 800w tota light.

Thanks for the advice!

Steven.

[Santo]

My advice is to do shoot some black and white stills that you can process up quickly for tests. No need to shoot blind.
Roger

Yes! This is even more true for colour. I mean, for easy simulation you can use any old slr, get close to the f-stop, exposure times, film speed you're shooting with, do a few tests even a day before if you're strapped, and drop off the film at a "one hour" place for the next day or later that afternoon and have a look before you've got a bunch of people who are likely volunteers showing up and you're dropping your own money filming stuff. A polaroid is great, but you've got to spend big bucks to get one with the manual control you'd need. Unless you've already got one...

I think the key thing, if you really think about it, is that you are using super 8 film as an aquisition medium. That means, very clearly, you want it properly exposed, and looking as good as it can. You can then do whatever you want in post. You can increase contrast, enhance colour, blow things out, degrade it, whatever. The better the base you start from, the more options you have, because the better the base you're working from is. It's like preventative medicine. Stop the problems from happening in the first place, and the less surgery you'll need, and the less medicine you'll need to take in the future.

[mattias]

should i just use very bright direct lighting to achieve my "Film Noir"?

you should make sure the contrast ratio is high, up to 3 stops between key and fill. the level and quality of the light is less important. sometimes soft light can increase the contrast more than hard light, especially if we're talking cross lights or top lights.

/matt

[MovieStuff]

When in doubt, just give 'em a rim/hair light and keep their face dark and mysterious. ;)

Roger

[mattias]

indeed. what i often do in a low budget "noir" situation is a add a soft general fill close to the camera at about two or three stops under, which keeps the shadows from getting muddy and works as an eyelight too. then i add a high backlight one stop over and finally work for as many minutes as we have trying to add more depth with traditional keylight, set light, cross light and so on. if there's very little time you can just shoot right away with such a setup.

/matt