Is It Just Me or Is this eBay Seller Smokng Crack ?

Henderson · Post by **Henderson** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 3:15 am

Lucas Lightfeat wrote:I'm not so sure it's Russian, but even if it is, I think it could be really good - my experience of Russian stuff is pretty good. I owned a Zenit SLR for 10 years as a child, and it was great. I'm sure Tarkovsky must have used one of those lemons, and if so, he didn't do too bad with one. The Russians have produced some really good stuff, you know. Those wind up S8 cams I'm not really interested in are supposed to be pretty good for what they are, by all accounts.

Anyway, I've been checking that page out again, and I noticed the size of the thing - it's 11cm by 24cm by 7cm - it's virtually the size of a Super8 camera! It is no way as cool, or as good as the Aaton, but who cares - If it works....

The picture looks like it might even have been made up in bryce or some such texturising design programme, with a lens image stuck on the front. This would explain why there's only one view and why it's so simple. I also thought it might be a marketing study, to get confirmation of interest, so that they could get some luka from the bank to make the thing...or am I becoming a paranoid conspiracy theorist?

I hope it's real, as it looks even better than a lot of second hand 16mm cams at the price such as an Arri BL (and yes, quite a bit better than a shitty B&H), and it's got features which older 16mm cams don't have, like it's Super16, crystal varispeed (I presume) and it's fast load etc. For me, as an ex Arri owner, being small and light is also supercool.

Lucas

I no think it's crystal. Plus only a wide angle prime lens. But the Super 16 is cool on it.
Henderson

Post by **Lucas Lightfeat** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 3:26 am

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind it is crystal.

Super16mm is almost always used sync sound, and for $3300, with lots of R&D investment, there's no way a manufacturer of a new camera would ever in a million years consider it not being crystal sync.

Even a $2 Chinese watch is crystal sync. these days. Crystal mechanisms are dirt cheap, and we only get ripped so badly in the Super8 world because the film group have a monopoly on the process. The parts cost less than a dollar, and the brains required are that of an average electronician.

By the way, it seems the origin of the name is that of a German machine which was an early tv camera or some such thing, though I wasn't interisted enough to read on (google).

I'm pretty sure it's not a Russian. The prime lens is cool - the Aaton comes with no lens at all. At least you only need to buy a second hand c-mount zoom for this baby, and you have a wide to go with it.

Lucas

Post by **Nick** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 8:52 pm

Hey Lucas,

I emailed those guys from their link on the website and they said they would take advance orders in a few weeks. Unfortunately they did not provide much more information. Their names sound like they might be Scandanavian possibly.

I cannot find anything else on this camera or company on the web though, at least nothing written in English.

Cheers,
Nick

Post by **jchanbr** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 10:35 pm

They are from Sweden.

Post by **Lucas Lightfeat** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 2:04 am

Sweden, huh? A Volvo/Saab then, not a Lada. Well that can only be a good thing, I guess.

Lucas

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 4:01 am

This camera could get more people using film over video. I say it's about time someone made a decent, inexpensive, S16 MM. I mean if the technology is there to create good prosumer video cams like the Canon GL2 and such why not S16? I'm bored of seeing 20-30 year old film camera's on sale at eBay for thousands of dollars anyway. I bet we could use it to make good film prints of our S8MM films too!

I want one too!

Nick being too lazy to log in.

Post by **Lucas Lightfeat** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 4:23 am

It has incredibly few controls on it, by the looks of things.

My guess is it has no lightmeter, video assist port, timecode. (Looks to have no handle either?!)

It's well thought out though, as none of the above are really necessary, just luxurious.

If they've really thought it out, I'd say it will have a built in "blooper slate" light and noise for syncing. Very cool and simple device.

If they've really, really thought it out, it will have a mirrored rotating shutter and it will be really quiet.

I'm amazed they've decided to put a c mount on it. Why not PL or even Arri Bayonet? They're better and more standard now, no?

Post by **rhcvatni** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 4:59 am

i totaly agree with you Nick. I'm pretty sick of searching Ebay again and again for 20-30 year old cameras, hoping to find something that still works, is crystal synced and doesn't cost too much. Then again you usually get what you pay for on Ebay. Most of the old cams look like crap too and they're big and clumsy. I can't imagine it should be that expensive to design and manufacture a small super 16 cam from scratch and have it retail for about the same as a pd 150 or xl1, and have it be about the same size as well. Or maybe I'm just dreaming. I guess I am.

But I think we are still lots of years away from consumer dv cams with 24p and a resolution that can even think about competing with super 16. Thats probably where HD cams are right now. One would think that Kodak would be interrested in seeing something like the Ikonoskop developed. Probably every film school with any self respect would buy one. i don't think it should be too simple though. Blimped, Synced, Multispeed(fps), intervalometer, internal lightmeter, time exposures. These things are all ancient technology and it should be mandatory if something like the Ikonoskop gets built. Take the a-minima and just make it smaller and less expensive. I think that camera rocks but it's a little out of budget for me. Maybe Kodak could finance some of it for us since we'll be buying a lot of film from them. Still dreaming

Post by **jessh** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 7:34 am

Lucas Lightfeat wrote: I'm amazed they've decided to put a c mount on it. Why not PL or even Arri Bayonet? They're better and more standard now, no?

With a C Mount you can use an adapter to mount any type of 35mm SLR lens, allowing for cheap lens options. You could also use an adapter to use PL or Arri Bayonet lenses. The downside is that C Mount's are more prone to problems with back-focus than bayonet mounts.

The picture on that website doesn't look like an actual picture. Chances are it is just for show and the actual camera could look completely different. I wouldn't hold my breath to wait to actually see this camera. But I really do hope that it does become available, with the stated specs and price.

It seems to me that the equipment manufacturers are in cahoots with the rental houses. The insanely high prices they charge for equipment makes it to where only rental houses can afford it. If they were to lower prices they could sell more, and atleast with some cameras they would probably be able to sell enough to offset the price difference, but then the rental houses wouldn't make as much. The whole rental thing also helps keep the low budget filmmakers down...... okay, enough conspiracy theories from me for now :-)

~Jess

Post by **Lucas Lightfeat** » Thu Feb 06, 2003 5:52 pm

jessh wrote: The picture on that website doesn't look like an actual picture. Chances are it is just for show and the actual camera could look completely different. I wouldn't hold my breath to wait to actually see this camera. But I really do hope that it does become available, with the stated specs and price.

~Jess

Just what I thought (and said earlier). I did receive this from them, suggesting they haven't started production, or even built the factory, but it suggests it is at least one real camera nearing completion:

Thanks for checking out the Ikonoskop website.

Our eagerly awaited baby, A-Cam, is in the last phase of development and
fine tuning, and will available within a few months.

Our, for the time being, quite modest website will soon grow into a full
sized, rather similar, and much better one.

A-Cam advance orders can be placed within a couple of weeks.

You will be informed.

Best regards
Daniel Jonsater & Goran Olsson
Founders Ikonoskop

rchvatni wrote: Probably every film school with any self respect would buy one. i don't think it should be too simple though. Blimped, Synced, Multispeed(fps), intervalometer, internal lightmeter, time exposures. These things are all ancient technology and it should be mandatory if something like the Ikonoskop gets built. Take the a-minima and just make it smaller and less expensive. I think that camera rocks but it's a little out of budget for me.

It claims to have an intervalometer & multispeed fps, must surely be crystal synced, but I'm unsure as to whether it will have an internal lightmeter, and think probably not, for some reason I can't explain. I hope it is self blimped, and to a good standard, though at this size it makes you wonder how it can be. For me, a mirrored rotating shutter and ground glass screen focussing is really damned important in a camera.

The a-minima is just intrinsicaly expensive - it's got timecode and a video assist port! They've got to sacrifice the things that you can do without, and it seems to me they're doing just that. I wondered about a matte box...? I think it should come as standard with a simple 2 slot one - those things are such a rip off normaly, when bought seperately.

I would love to do what those guys are doing. Champions of industry - I take my hat off to them.

Lucas