Reg 8 vs Super 8

Post by **BalsaBill** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:43 pm

Whenever this debate comes up in various posts, I don't see much mention of double super 8. It does solve the problem of the "cheap plastic cartridge and pressure plate" and it's 100' rolls beat the 50' cartridge problem.
I see Reg 8 Bolex H8's come up for sale all the time on ebay. Isn't there still someone who will convert these to Super 8?

Post by **monobath** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:59 pm

It comes up a lot on this forum. Search and you'll see.

Most people acknowledge the advantages of DS8 over S8 that you mentioned. The main problem with DS8 is that the cameras are harder to come by than S8 cameras. They are available, like Bolex DS8s sold with a full set of Switars, if you can afford to spend $1500 to $2k. But there just aren't as many of them on the market relative to S8, and so they tend to be more expensive to acquire than a good S8 camera.

I plan to buy a DS8 camera one of these days, but I just can't afford it yet.

I don't know if anyone still does conversions, but I'm sure it has been discussed on this forum a number of times, and probably recently.

Post by **vonfilm** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:19 pm

If you are not planning to use the cameras professionally, I think you should consider using the H8 as a regular 8 camera for a while. It has all the advantages you mention for DS8 at a fraction of the cost.

Post by **FilmIs4Ever** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:58 pm

I agree with Vonfilm. DR8 can give you great images if you shoot K40A (now that it's available in DR8) and you can also get the 100 footers processed for the same price as 16mm 100 foot. The image area is smaller and therefore the image is grainier, but as long as you aren't shooting Tri-X or pushing everything, you should make out pretty well. Plus, the cameras are cheap, durable, and often mechanical, meaning no batteries to change and an ability to survive even drops onto cement (I've done this with DR8 and the camera still worked after the drop, with only a small dent). I just think since its cheaper and the frames are steadier, it is a better option than S8. Everyone is always saying: oh, S8 has a much bigger image area. In reality it's only about a 25% increase in size. Plus, if the frame in a S8 cartridge jitters, all of the resolution increase in the world can't hide the shake. I think that DR8 is more professional, because it's harder to load and every DR8 camera I know of is manual exposure and manual focus. Manual exposure and focus give YOU control over the image rather than some stupid internal meter that will screw up whenever you point it at something white or something black. Food for thought.

Regards.
~Karl Borowski

Post by **BalsaBill** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:59 pm

My Bolex H8 is double Super 8. I've been shooting with it for several years. I started shooting with a Bolex H8 (Reg 8 ) back in 1965. Over the years I've shot with them all, 16, Super 8 cartridge etc.

When I bought my current H8 a few years ago, I thought I was getting reg. 8. When it arrived I found it had been converted to Super 8. So, that's what I shoot. Double Super 8 film seems to be as readily available as Double reg 8.

The reason for my post is that I just don't see much mention of Double Super 8 on this forum. Admittedly I don't spend my life on here but whenever the subject comes up it seems to drift into the wonderful virtues of reg. 8. I agree that reg 8 is a great format and if my camerea had come in as ordered that's what I'd be shooting with it.

I didn't realize the cost of the converted Bolexes had gone up so much and I haven't see one for sale in a long time so that's probably the reason why. The cameras just aren't readily available. It seems though, with the abundance of Bolex H8's out there that someone would set up to do conversions. Apparently from the interest I see on here, or the lack of it, there doesn't seem to be much of a market.

Post by **ccortez** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:01 pm

BalsaBill wrote: I didn't realize the cost of the converted Bolexes had gone up so much and I haven't see one for sale in a long time so that's probably the reason why. The cameras just aren't readily available. It seems though, with the abundance of Bolex H8's out there that someone would set up to do conversions. Apparently from the interest I see on here, or the lack of it, there doesn't seem to be much of a market.

I bet this is easily found by searching, but I'm way too lazy right now...

How is that conversion done? Ridiculously difficult, or easily done with a dremel? ;)

c.

Post by **timdrage** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:14 pm

The reason for my post is that I just don't see much mention of Double Super 8 on

There is a quite a lot of mention, but alas it doesn't always lead to constructive discussion!

I'd certainly use it if I could find a camera cheap and easily, but for now I'll stick to super8 and, if I ever get round to shooting any, standard 8.

Post by **LastQuark** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:46 pm

FilmIs4Ever wrote:Everyone is always saying: oh, S8 has a much bigger image area. In reality it's only about a 25% increase in size.

S8 is actually 50% larger in area compared to R8.
Ã‚Â

Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:19 pm

Diagonally/Horizontally/Vertically it is? Absolutely for sure 50% bigger, I didnt know that. I always assumed that it looked about 25% bigger give or take.

But, I havent sat down to measure with a microscope the differences.

I know Kodak boasts that it is 50% bigger and have since 1965, I just didnt beleive them.

Oh well...

jordan

Post by **Juno** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:24 pm

thebrowniecameraguy wrote:Diagonally/Horizontally/Vertically it is? Absolutely for sure 50% bigger, I didnt know that. I always assumed that it looked about 25% bigger give or take.

But, I havent sat down to measure with a microscope the differences.

I know Kodak boasts that it is 50% bigger and have since 1965, I just didnt beleive them.

Oh well...

jordan

If you measure the actual frame itself, not the image that is cropped by the gate, it is actually only about 20% bigger.

Post by **jean** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:51 pm

neither did I measure it. But keep in mind that we're talking square mm here, not just the frame border length

Post by **Lunar07** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:00 pm

The area of the 8mm frame: 3.3*4.5 = 14.85 mm**2
The area of the S8mm frame: 4.01*5.46 = 21.89 mm**2

So area ratio is: 14.85/21.89 = 0.678 = 67.8/100 (67.8%)

Post by **mattias** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:16 pm

Lunar07 wrote:So area ratio is: 14.85/21.89 = 0.678 = 67.8/100 (67.8%)

that's a kind of odd way to use percentage in this case. in my opinion it's better to compute (21.89-14.85)/14.85=0.47=47%, which is how much bigger the super 8 is? or (21.89-14.85)/21.89=0.32=33%, which is how much smaller the regular 8 is?

/matt

Post by **reedsturtevant** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:21 pm

Benjamin Disraeli wrote:Ã¢â‚¬Å“There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.Ã¢â‚¬Â

The area of a Super 8 frame is 47% larger than a Regular 8 frame.
The area of a Regular 8 frame is 33% smaller than a Super 8 frame.

Both are true 8O

Post by **mattias** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:47 pm

reedsturtevant wrote: The area of a Super 8 frame is 47% larger than a Regular 8 frame.
The area of a Regular 8 frame is 33% smaller than a Super 8 frame.

yeah, that's what i said.
[/quote]Both are true[/quote]
yeah, that too.

and the regular frame is 67% of the super 8 frame, which is 147% of the regular 8 frame. also true. did i mention that 1+1 is 2?

/matt