blue lightnings and hazes on k40

Post by **mathis** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:26 pm

hi all,

i just got back 4 rolls of k40 from switzerland and one of the rolls is showing blue hazes and lightnings all trough the film. it looks very much like it happened while processing and not in the camera (all 4 the same camera). anybody had such experiences before? is it a bad film? or bad processing? or what happened?

concerning jitter: one of the rolls (another one) shows particular bad jitter which wasnÃ‚Â´t in any way assumable during shooting (no loud noises etc.)
but it was very cold (maybe around -10 degree celcius) and this was the last roll (so the camera and film was really freezing). is there any relationship known between environment temperature and jitter?

best regards,
- m

(b.t.w. camera: nizo 4080)

Post by **Old Uncle Barry** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:48 pm

8O
I think you will find that the 'blue haze' you describe is a natural phenomena in mountainous/high altitude/extreme long shots.Kodachrome records this blue haze quite efficiently for some reason,so it would be advisable for you to fit a haze filter or ultra-violet filter over your lens when you are presented with this situation again.
As these filters are practically colourless and the exposure factor is not worth worrying about,you can leave it on camera permanently.Will also protect your lens too.

YouTube · Post by **Andreas Wideroe** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:49 pm

I've had these blue stains on many films. I remember a while back, I asked the exactly same question in the newsgroup for super8 and the conclusion was that temperature changes did it. I don't know if this is really it and I haven't really bothered investigating it further anyway. Maybe someone else has a better explanation?

Post by **Old Uncle Barry** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:56 pm

:!:
Andreas is quite right,and had I read the thread properly I would have given a different answer.However what I wrote still holds firm.
As for the blue stains Andreas is quite correct.It is due to rapid temperature changes that affects the emulsion and causes this effect.It is due to moisture retention.
Raw stock has to be (not always easy I know) kept at,or at least given chance to,adapt to the environment you are filming in.This is why when film in tropical regions (we wish!),raw stock is kept in a humidity proof packaging which Kodak actually supply to professional film users to protect the valuable filstock.
Well spotted Andreas!

Post by **Actor** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 3:23 am

Could it be that he didn't switch in the 85 filter?

Ludwig · Post by **Ludwig** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:11 am

Hallo.
I think, mostly of the blue points and strikes etc. are a problem
of the processing in the laboratory. Formerly the films are processed in Germany directly and i cant remember, that there are such a lot of problems at that time. Since starting development in Lausanne, the blue strikes increased rapidly. All other shooters,
i have the contact with, told me the same.
Kindly regards
Ludwig

Post by **paul** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 12:25 pm

I asked Kodak once and they said it had to do with temperature changes when taking a film from a warm/cold environment into a cold/warm environment just before filming. It's best to have your film acclimatized to the temperature you are going to film in before you pull the trigger. If you do not let your film acclimatize to the temperature you are filming in you will get blue spots.

Same goes for when your film gets to the lab. Especially in cold winters and hot summers, the differences in temperature with the temperature in the lab maybe quite large. When the film gets to the lab from the cold or very hot postbag from the postman in to the lab the temperature differences will be quite large and you may get blue spots on your film. Kodak however offers a service to acclimatize your film in their lab for one day before processing. Just send your film in an envelope with a letter wherein you request to have the film acclimatized in their lab before processing.

This is what Kodak explained to me and what I always do.

Paul

Post by **mathis** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 12:53 pm

the temperature theorie seems quite logic to me, since i changed the films temperature rapidly between room temperature at home to -10 degrees celcius. and the blue strikes decrease from film to film (so the other films actually acclimatized.)

thanks for the tip with the lab (also this seems a bit logic since lausanne is in the alps with a different climate than stuttgart.)

this is a great forum (not only for dreamers)!
best,
- m

Post by **paul** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:16 pm

I forgot to mention you have to send the film for accl. to Lausanne directly to this address:

Kodak Photoservice
To Erica
1. Avenue Longemalle
1020 Rennes
Lausanne
Suisse

Post by **mathis** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:34 pm

well, that i donÃ‚Â´t know if itÃ‚Â´s really whise..

i got back films sent to stuttgart much more quickly than sending them directly to lausanne.
is my experience an exception?

Post by **nik-super8** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 4:28 pm

Hello mathis,

I made the same experience.
I had sent one cartridge directly to Renens, Suisse and I had to wait exactly 25 days to get it back.
In the meantime I posted an other cartridge to Kodak, Stuttgart and I received this one back in 11 days.
For german Kodachrome users I would recommend sending their films to Stuttgart.
You can save postage and you receive your processed film much faster.
I think the delay is caused by the treating at the customs because Switzerland is no member of the European Union.

GrÃƒÂ¼ÃƒÅ¸e nach MÃƒÂ¼nchen,

Niklas

Post by **Maurizio Di Cintio** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 5:18 pm

I too agree that this problem is caused by temperature; one more hint: Kodak recommends to open the foil wrap of each cartridge only when the cartridge has reached the local temperature....

But I also fear it might be aproblem of statics occurring during shooting and/or development.

Post by **tfunch24** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 6:05 pm

mathis wrote:hi all,
concerning jitter: one of the rolls (another one) shows particular bad jitter which wasnÃ‚Â´t in any way assumable during shooting (no loud noises etc.)
but it was very cold (maybe around -10 degree celcius) and this was the last roll (so the camera and film was really freezing). is there any relationship known between environment temperature and jitter?

In answer to your question, with certain brands of cameras, yes.

Earlier this month, I filmed in my garage at night. The temperature was about 28 degrees farenheit (below freezing). After shooting about six minutes worth of footage over the course of an hour, my camera's motor started to whine and make loud noises before it stopped dead. I assumed the batteries had died. I put the camera back in the house and finished shooting with one of my backup cameras.

Later that evening, I did a test and discovered that the first camera--which had been sitting in a warm house for about two hours--ran fine--no noise or stutter. When I got the film back from the lab, it did not have jitter but it had stuttering--hard to explain, I'll upload a clip to illustrate. I have since shot and developed some more film with the first camera (a Leicina Super) and it's running fine now.

So extreme cold can affect certain brands of cameras.

As for temperature affecting processing, is B&W film affected, too?

Tom

Post by **mathis** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 1:31 am

Maurizio Di Cintio wrote: But I also fear it might be aproblem of statics occurring during shooting and/or development.

well, this is a theory i heard today which sounds quite logical to me: that when the air in lausanne is very dry static builds up which occurs in blue lightnings exposed on the film (at transport wheels, for example).
there where times when the labs staff knew about that and waited till air gets more humid...

Post by **mattias** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 8:56 am

mathis wrote:the labs staff knew about that and waited till air gets more humid...

but one would assume that such a large lab should have climate control installed, right? and are static sparks really blue? the flashes i've gotten have been a very distinct blue color.

/matt

Filmshooting

blue lightnings and hazes on k40

blue lightnings and hazes on k40

Re: blue lightnings and hazes on k40