Anybody who likes super8 and Paul Simon may also like this short movie:
http://homepage.mac.com/zlacza/English/ ... ter17.html
Any feedback is appreciated, this was an experimental project.
Zsombor
short flick super8 enthusiasm
Moderator: Andreas Wideroe
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Actor
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In the U.S. he was legal up to the point where he made it available on the internet. Here a copyright infringement does not occur until you distribute. What most people don't seem to understand is that distribution does not have to involve money changing hands. Posting on the internet is distribution.
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mattias
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actually the simple act of using the music in a film is a violation of the sync rights. making straight audio copies for your own use is perfectly ok, and in most countries you can even give those to your friends within the limits of the fair use clause, but creating derivative work is different and very little if anything falls under fair use in that case.
/matt
/matt
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matt5791
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OK here is one that has been interesting me.
I was at a Wedding Fair the other day - you know, a hall full of exhibitors selling cakes, dresses etc etc.
There were one or two Video people there, and at least one was clearly advertising on their stand that they would sync "your favourite music tracks" to the finished product. At the same time they had a show reel playing on a plasma screen synced to a Dido track.
Do they need to pay royalities for this? if you choose to have "your favourite" tracks synced to your finished video does the price they charge suddenly rocket upwards?
Or mabey there is some scheme whereby people like that can pay an annual fee (like pubs and bars do to play any music publicly) and then use anything they like in the videos they produce?
I suppose I should have asked them what the score was, but it was difficult to get close to the salesman.
Anyone got any thoughts - mabey they are not paying any royalties at all and just hoping for the best?
Matt
I was at a Wedding Fair the other day - you know, a hall full of exhibitors selling cakes, dresses etc etc.
There were one or two Video people there, and at least one was clearly advertising on their stand that they would sync "your favourite music tracks" to the finished product. At the same time they had a show reel playing on a plasma screen synced to a Dido track.
Do they need to pay royalities for this? if you choose to have "your favourite" tracks synced to your finished video does the price they charge suddenly rocket upwards?
Or mabey there is some scheme whereby people like that can pay an annual fee (like pubs and bars do to play any music publicly) and then use anything they like in the videos they produce?
I suppose I should have asked them what the score was, but it was difficult to get close to the salesman.
Anyone got any thoughts - mabey they are not paying any royalties at all and just hoping for the best?
Matt
Birmingham UK.
http://www.wells-photography.co.uk
Avatar: Kenneth Moore (left) with producers (centre) discussing forthcoming film to be financed by my grandfather (right) C.1962
http://www.wells-photography.co.uk
Avatar: Kenneth Moore (left) with producers (centre) discussing forthcoming film to be financed by my grandfather (right) C.1962
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Justin Lovell
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mattias
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it's very possible that there are certain exceptions to the basic international copyright laws in certain territories, and it's also possible that some organisation cut a deal with the copyright bureau to use any music for a specific purpose for an annual fee and so on. i know of many such exceptions and deals. it's always an exception though, and you should never use music until you've made sure you're allowed to. except if you rely on the "i won't get caught" rule, which is fair enough i guess...
in the case of the wedding videographers i guess they can always claim that they're not legally the producers, but have been comissioned to make the video for the client, which would make it easier to claim it's for private use. otherwise it doesn't quite make sense that they can sell a product containing copyrighted material without requiring the proper rights. and i'm sure there's a way of getting around the sync rights too in a similar way.
/matt
in the case of the wedding videographers i guess they can always claim that they're not legally the producers, but have been comissioned to make the video for the client, which would make it easier to claim it's for private use. otherwise it doesn't quite make sense that they can sell a product containing copyrighted material without requiring the proper rights. and i'm sure there's a way of getting around the sync rights too in a similar way.
/matt
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mattias
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yes, i seem to be close. have the client supply the cd and sign over all liability to them. it's not perfectly legal, but you should be safe.
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/t80869.html
this opens an interesting possibility: make a film, any film, and don't add the music, but do include instructions on which music to add and where, and then have the buyer add it. haha, very clever, although i doubt many people would be interested in going through all that trouble just to see my films exactly the way i wanted them to. :-)
/matt
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/t80869.html
this opens an interesting possibility: make a film, any film, and don't add the music, but do include instructions on which music to add and where, and then have the buyer add it. haha, very clever, although i doubt many people would be interested in going through all that trouble just to see my films exactly the way i wanted them to. :-)
/matt
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FourFourForty
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legal, illegal, s...egal
This is pretty much all I can say in German, but it fits the topic. There is a new movement for the music industry to accept fair use. "Fair" I guess is to make movies for fun and share it to a reasonable extent.
1, The iTunes music store allows the user to burn unlimited CDs from the purchased tracks.
2, Wired magazine had a CD with lots of royalty free tracks under a novel licence, which allows creative use of the material but is acceptable for the authors. Maybe this is the way ahead.
3, Radio staitions play the music for free. MTV does the same, because it is free advertisement for the records. Hey, maybe my little movie is also a free ad for a long forgotten Paul Simon tune. And I will make zero money on it, while MTV and the radio stations make profit.
4, I purchased a CD. Why is it "fair" to allow listening to it, without allowing listening to it synched to my home movie?
5, This is not a question of fairness, it is a question of business. If it were about fairness, music CDs were cheaper, MTV would pay for them, and the bands would be free to make music they like and not music the producer likes. Thus, whether it is legal or illegal means far less than whether it is profitable or not. So a home movie or a wedding video or any other project intended for an audience which is not willing to pay extra for it, should be OK. Legal, Illegal, S...egal.
Just a few thoughts from an amateur user of music.
BTW, I am glad you guys liked my little project.
1, The iTunes music store allows the user to burn unlimited CDs from the purchased tracks.
2, Wired magazine had a CD with lots of royalty free tracks under a novel licence, which allows creative use of the material but is acceptable for the authors. Maybe this is the way ahead.
3, Radio staitions play the music for free. MTV does the same, because it is free advertisement for the records. Hey, maybe my little movie is also a free ad for a long forgotten Paul Simon tune. And I will make zero money on it, while MTV and the radio stations make profit.
4, I purchased a CD. Why is it "fair" to allow listening to it, without allowing listening to it synched to my home movie?
5, This is not a question of fairness, it is a question of business. If it were about fairness, music CDs were cheaper, MTV would pay for them, and the bands would be free to make music they like and not music the producer likes. Thus, whether it is legal or illegal means far less than whether it is profitable or not. So a home movie or a wedding video or any other project intended for an audience which is not willing to pay extra for it, should be OK. Legal, Illegal, S...egal.
Just a few thoughts from an amateur user of music.
BTW, I am glad you guys liked my little project.
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mattias
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you're talking about a completely different thing. copying music and listening to music is one thing, but we're talking sync rights here. it has nothing to do with copies or money, just the basic and essential right for the author of a piece to chose what it's being used for. this is a much more important and timeless right than the right to make and sell copies in my opinion.
/matt
no no no, you've no idea how wrong you are here. and not only wrong, but also rather arrogant. i forgive you only because you obviously haven't got a single clue what you're talking about...Thus, whether it is legal or illegal means far less than whether it is profitable or not. So a home movie or a wedding video or any other project intended for an audience which is not willing to pay extra for it, should be OK.
/matt
I totally agree with mattias. Copyright laws are very strict and should be, even if the low budget film maker suffers. I am unable to distribute my first short from a few years back because of music copyrights. We were allowed to use the music by the composer, but we still need to pay for distribution rights. This meant that we could not afford to have it shown on television because distribution rights cost more than our fee.
I also had to change a project where we planned to film in a sculpture park. Although we where allowed in the park, we had to pay distribution rights for using the sculptures in the film.
Although this is anoying and feels silly if you struggle with a low budget, try imagining what you would do if someone suddenly took your work and distributed it widely, and even taking credit for it. I would feel very cheated.
Bottom line: Make your own art. If you need the music in your film and you cannot get license free music or make your own, then your film is crap. Simply because ot does not tell YOUR story, but uses someone elses creation to do it for you.
michael
I also had to change a project where we planned to film in a sculpture park. Although we where allowed in the park, we had to pay distribution rights for using the sculptures in the film.
Although this is anoying and feels silly if you struggle with a low budget, try imagining what you would do if someone suddenly took your work and distributed it widely, and even taking credit for it. I would feel very cheated.
Bottom line: Make your own art. If you need the music in your film and you cannot get license free music or make your own, then your film is crap. Simply because ot does not tell YOUR story, but uses someone elses creation to do it for you.
michael