Results of my Super 8 sound synching test

[Jan]

Thanks for clarifying.

I wonder how long you can shoot wild if you manually adjust the sound, using a decent camera.

Your method looks like it's perfect, except for cheapskates like me ;-)

J.

[mattias]

I use Mattias's software to calculate audio suitable for 24 fps (it use that pulse code track to do job), because I shot it with 24 fps speed. After that I slowed down my footage in Premiere 4 % to get 25 fps (PAL) speed for it and just put audio-file in the right place.

you can also just tell my software to resolve to 25 fps right away, if that's your transfer speed. it does a pretty good stretching job using linear interpolation, even though it will increase the pitch slightly.

/matt

[tmoceri]

If so I'd be interested. I'm doing some S/R8 transfers in the US using a WPXP and I'm currently turning down any work with sound.

I do have a dual 8 projector with sound output could I use your SW with that?

Sorry if this is a stupid questions, just came across this post and the mention of the sync sound sw. Link?

Thanks!

-Tom

[mattias]

I do have a dual 8 projector with sound output could I use your SW with that?

if it has a pilotone or pulse sync output, yes. fitting one should be easy if too it doesn't. i believe a magnet or photocell on the shutter disc would do the trick.

let me know if you need the software for testing. it's only availiable as a beta for testing purposes, and only from me directly.

/matt

[tmoceri]

Cool, I'll check out my projector and let you know. Can you briefly explain the theory behind this?

Again, sorry I'm a little clueless here?

-Tom

[mattias]

the pilotone or sync pulse conenector puts out a sinewave or tone pulse that's exactly proportional to the running speed of the projector or camera, thus you can see how much it differs from what it should be and correct the audio to match. my software corrects once per second, or even for every frame if you want it to, so even if your camera or projector drifts a lot the audio will always stay at the correct speed.

/matt

[tmoceri]

Ok I'm learning here...

I'm assuming that my projector does not have pilotone or synce pulse connector. Is there any info on the net regarding a DIY modification?

Also, when the sineware is generated is it recorded with the film audio or seperately?

-Tom

[mattias]

I'm assuming that my projector does not have pilotone or synce pulse connector. Is there any info on the net regarding a DIY modification?

i don't know. just find something in there that turns and attach some kind of switch to it, magnetic, optical or mechanical. it's easy if you know your way around those things, and if you don't i doubt any online info will help you anyway.

Also, when the sineware is generated is it recorded with the film audio or seperately?

it would be generated by the projector and it's just a speed reference completely indepenent of the sound. perhaps what is confusing you here is that most of us would use this as a system for shooting, not transferring. the software works fine in both situations, but they are not the same. if we're talking about shooting double system sound, like in jukka's example, the wave or pulse is generated by the camera and recorded along with the location sound on the other stereo track. no need for any projector mods in that case. (or even a projector for that matter) ;-)

/matt

[ericMartinJarvies]

Thanks for posting this very interesting test clip.

The Pedro/Mattias combo works very well.

Heck of a great mike to use for perhaps documentary or "TV reporter" style shots. Or singing on film. I'm pretty impressed with what I see here.

I was surprised to see such drift so fast in the Canon 1014 in the second shot. I did some wild sound tests with a 814 electronic I used to have and found I got a good 30 seconds or so before it started drifting. That little chainsaw seemed to have a pretty steady speed rate, all things considered.

with my canon 1014, when new batteries are installed, the cameras runs FAST ... it is only until the batteries are about 1/2 into their life does the camera run closer to 24fps. i have a speed checker, and have burned a set of batteries performing this test. kind of sucks, becuase they such nice cameras ... my 4008 beaulieus always ran closer to 24fps no matter the battery condition.

eric

[mattias]

is that a non electronic autozoom? the electronic and xls should run at the exact same speed no matter battery condition. my 814e does.

/matt

[Lunar07]

Cool, I'll check out my projector and let you know. Can you briefly explain the theory behind this?

Again, sorry I'm a little clueless here?

-Tom

viewtopic.php?t=304&highlight=reed+switch+projector

There was also a website for Super8 with PDF copies of Super8 Filmmaker magazine. One issue had a description on building 1/f socket on a projector using reed switches. I can not find the link to this web site.

[ericMartinJarvies]

is that a non electronic autozoom? the electronic and xls should run at the exact same speed no matter battery condition. my 814e does.

/matt

i have the 1014xls. the camera itself is in like-new condition. to speed test one cannot have a cart loaded. naturally, the cart will slow down the actual speed, but imho not enough to tone the camera down to 24fps. but even more interesting is the fact the camera will tone itself down when the batteries have discharged a certain amount.

i need to crack open a s8 cart and load it with clear film, and then install a 45 degree prism where the little door window is located, this way i can run the camera with cart/film loaded, to account for the load/drag, while at the same time being able to view through the lens the tobin speed checker. anotehr project at another date and time ;)

eric

[Scotness]

There was also a website for Super8 with PDF copies of Super8 Filmmaker magazine. One issue had a description on building 1/f socket on a projector using reed switches. I can not find the link to this web site.

http://www.super8cinema.com/tools_and_tricks.html


Scot

[mattias]

but even more interesting is the fact the camera will tone itself down when the batteries have discharged a certain amount.

yes, that is strange. my 814e doesn't show this behaviour. perhaps there's something wrong with yours?

/matt

[Sparky]

i need to crack open a s8 cart and load it with clear film, and then install a 45 degree prism where the little door window is located, this way i can run the camera with cart/film loaded, to account for the load/drag, while at the same time being able to view through the lens the tobin speed checker. anotehr project at another date and time icon_wink.gif

dosn't it have a flash pulse output? If it has you should be able to use this to measure the speed very accurately either with an oscilloscope if you have one, or as has been described here using an audio card and a simple bit of circuitry to record the pulses and post analyse them.

Mark