He also said several times that the world would end during his disciples' lifetime!2.Jesus said worst things than this will happen
Or is He out of control?God is in control
...just like this thread.
Tsunami
Moderator: Andreas Wideroe
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MovieStuff
- Posts: 6135
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- Real name: Roger Evans
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Man, this thread is out of control and needs a reality check in the worst way possible.
Regarding donations:
For 20+ years I donated to relief efforts and charities and I still do, but only when I can afford it. And before anyone says I am being selfish in the face of such a world disaster, please understand that my family lost everything when Hurricane Alison hit Houston. We lost our belongings, our business, our cars, our house, our clothes, even our beloved pet and barely escaped with our lives. No insurance came to our rescue, no foreign aid was there to offer a helping hand and, as we tried to pick up the pieces, I regretted every penny I had given away over the previous years because, suddenly, my famliy needed the money in the worst way possible. So, now, donating "when I can afford it" is relative to the long term needs of my family and not just how much spare change I have in my pocket at this given moment because that spare change adds up over the long haul and you never know when you are going to need it. Do I care about the suffering of other people in this world? Of course I do and I help them when I can, but not at the risk of the family I love. So please don't try to make be feel guilty about my charitable efforts because I'm not going to feel bad about putting my family first.
Regarding religion (to those that this applies):
"Religious beliefs" are a troublesome thing because, at face value, there is an admission that nothing can be proven, otherwise it would not be called a "belief", in the first place. Therefore, anyone claiming that such a natural disaster is some divine intervention to punish the sinners of this world is really going out on a limb, IMHO. I mean, let's suppose that you're wrong and this was just an unfortunate natural event. How do you think God is going to feel about you speaking for Him? Personally, I wouldn't want to take the chance of pissing off the Almighty by falsely accusing him of killing thousands of innocent people. Oh, so He knows your heart and will forgive you for false accusations of murder? Then that only shows your arrogance to think that you are more special to Him than the thousands of innocents you claim He killed just to bag a few sinners.
Personally, I'd like to think God would be capable of a more surgical strike that resulted in less innocents getting killed. But, if you're right, what makes you think he wouldn't take out your entire neighborhood just punish you for your false accusations against Him? Think about that the next time you feel bold enough to speak for an all powerful God you claim you fear and respect. Unless, of course, your own doubts about His existence allow you to speak so freely? ;)
Privately believe what you want but, if you really don't know and are just guessing, don't present your information as fact or you'll end up looking silly and the thread will only go downhill from there.
Roger
Regarding donations:
For 20+ years I donated to relief efforts and charities and I still do, but only when I can afford it. And before anyone says I am being selfish in the face of such a world disaster, please understand that my family lost everything when Hurricane Alison hit Houston. We lost our belongings, our business, our cars, our house, our clothes, even our beloved pet and barely escaped with our lives. No insurance came to our rescue, no foreign aid was there to offer a helping hand and, as we tried to pick up the pieces, I regretted every penny I had given away over the previous years because, suddenly, my famliy needed the money in the worst way possible. So, now, donating "when I can afford it" is relative to the long term needs of my family and not just how much spare change I have in my pocket at this given moment because that spare change adds up over the long haul and you never know when you are going to need it. Do I care about the suffering of other people in this world? Of course I do and I help them when I can, but not at the risk of the family I love. So please don't try to make be feel guilty about my charitable efforts because I'm not going to feel bad about putting my family first.
Regarding religion (to those that this applies):
"Religious beliefs" are a troublesome thing because, at face value, there is an admission that nothing can be proven, otherwise it would not be called a "belief", in the first place. Therefore, anyone claiming that such a natural disaster is some divine intervention to punish the sinners of this world is really going out on a limb, IMHO. I mean, let's suppose that you're wrong and this was just an unfortunate natural event. How do you think God is going to feel about you speaking for Him? Personally, I wouldn't want to take the chance of pissing off the Almighty by falsely accusing him of killing thousands of innocent people. Oh, so He knows your heart and will forgive you for false accusations of murder? Then that only shows your arrogance to think that you are more special to Him than the thousands of innocents you claim He killed just to bag a few sinners.
Personally, I'd like to think God would be capable of a more surgical strike that resulted in less innocents getting killed. But, if you're right, what makes you think he wouldn't take out your entire neighborhood just punish you for your false accusations against Him? Think about that the next time you feel bold enough to speak for an all powerful God you claim you fear and respect. Unless, of course, your own doubts about His existence allow you to speak so freely? ;)
Privately believe what you want but, if you really don't know and are just guessing, don't present your information as fact or you'll end up looking silly and the thread will only go downhill from there.
Roger
For real. And I'm leaving this thread behind (I hoped I already had) and returning to the film part of the forum for fear of becoming guilty by association and running off valuable forum members.MovieStuff wrote:Man, this thread is out of control and needs a reality check in the worst way possible.
But there's something I can't let go (of course), and as Roger put it:
Along those lines:MovieStuff wrote: Privately believe what you want but, if you really don't know and are just guessing, don't present your information as fact or you'll end up looking silly and the thread will only go downhill from there.
The only problem with these statements is that they are patently untrue.MattPacini wrote: The US gives something like 40% of all the worlds foreign aid.
More than all of Europe combined.
The percentage of our budget, etc. is irrelevant.
We toss shitloads of money all over the planet, often to countries that just steal it and don't give it to the people we're trying to help.
We give far more than anyone else, period.
One at a time:
As Ross Perot might say, "See this chart?"MattPacini wrote: The US gives something like 40% of all the worlds foreign aid.
Just from the #s on this chart, the US percentage is more like 22%. Which is disturbingly close to, though slightly less than, the percentage of the world's non-renewable resources that we consume. The US is something like 5-7% of the world population.
Not only is our percentage nothing like 40%, but we don't even give the most in absolute dollars. From 1995-1999, the US gave between 6-15 billion while Japan gave between 9-15 billion. As a percentage of GDP we are dead last among wealthy nations.
Oh yeah? America gave $16.2 billion in 2003; the European Union gave $37.1 billion. In 2002, those numbers were $13.2 billion for America, and $29.9 billion for Europe. (Source: New York Times)MattPacini wrote:More than all of Europe combined.
Hardly, and quite the opposite. We are signatories to a UN pledge among wealthy nations to give .7 percent of GDP. Many have succeeded -- Norway, Denmark, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Sweden -- and many have fallen short. But again, we are dead last. If we as a nation consider such a thing irrelevant, we shouldn't sign the damn papers.MattPacini wrote:The percentage of our budget, etc. is irrelevant.
Like I said at the very beginning of this thread -- the gap between perception and reality on this issue is huge. Not only are we not the most generous nation on earth, we're not even in the running. We pledge money that we never give (Iran, Africa). We assign bullshit requirements to the money we deliver (AIDS assistance in Africa only if they teach abstinence over birth control). And somewhere in the neighborhood of 80% of our foreign aid actually goes to American companies in those foreign countries. Finally, since 1975 Israel has received somewhere between 11 and 15 percent of all US foreign aid.MattPacini wrote:We toss shitloads of money all over the planet, often to countries that just steal it and don't give it to the people we're trying to help.
We give far more than anyone else, period.
You may argue with me on this issue if you wish, but I assure you you're out of your depth. If you choose to continue, please bring along some facts to back up your argument and not just the same "made up statistics" you accuse others of.
If God is a god of judgement, ultra religious people of all kinds and religions are the ones who will inherit hell and damnation. So you see, we do agree - you still have time to be redeemed scottbobo2 - start by reading the bible, but NOT upside down.
I have heard quite disgusting and sickening things coming from religious people in explaining what happened in Asia. What a shameless disgusting bunch of people - who were taught that faith can be reduced to criminality and cruelty.
I have heard quite disgusting and sickening things coming from religious people in explaining what happened in Asia. What a shameless disgusting bunch of people - who were taught that faith can be reduced to criminality and cruelty.
scottbobo2 wrote:*My final Post on the subject unless I am dragged back in again with distorted comments.
1.God is love but he is also a God of Judgement(not a monster but justice)
2.Jesus said worst things than this will happen
3.Bad things happen to good people but JUDGEMENT beongs to GOD
4.If you want a GOD of love but without the judgement part it is not in the Bible(UUA church of do what you like)
5.I never said the people of Asia got what was coming to them but if,if,if,if it was GOD judgement,it won't be the first or the last time....If you believe the Bible. Now, back to filmmaking
Alex wrote
You are the perfect example of what i have been talking about, you can see the irony in that too then? If you put even just 1% of your efforts in some better cause rather than attacking your fellow super8ers maybe you could make a difference. Do what you mean Alex. If you are so for getting rid of the nuclear weapons then what are you doing about it? are you lobbying congress, protesting it the best you can, starting an organization to address the issue?? Or are you just spending that time on this forum attacking people like me and other super8ers.
You completely missed my response last time. Make sure you read before you respond next time. "I dont have money to throw around" I donated to the red cross disaster fund.. that is the only important thing to donate to right now. thats the best 'I' can do. I am a survivor from a horrible freakish accident that almost took my life 2 years ago and i am paying the bill for that, so please let that be. And besides, my posts were about doing what you mean, not about criticism if people donate. its about if you intend to do something, then make sure you do it.As for the donation to this forum, don't insult people about their intentions in regards whether they are donating or not on a forum that you have not made a donation to, surely you can see the irony in that, no?
You are the perfect example of what i have been talking about, you can see the irony in that too then? If you put even just 1% of your efforts in some better cause rather than attacking your fellow super8ers maybe you could make a difference. Do what you mean Alex. If you are so for getting rid of the nuclear weapons then what are you doing about it? are you lobbying congress, protesting it the best you can, starting an organization to address the issue?? Or are you just spending that time on this forum attacking people like me and other super8ers.
Right on Ccortez. I think Pacini might be getting his facts from Rush Limbaugh. Seriously, i listen to him from time to time(for comic relief) and heard him say recently that the US gives more than europe combined.MattPacini wrote:
More than all of Europe combined.
Ccortez responded:
Oh yeah? America gave $16.2 billion in 2003; the European Union gave $37.1 billion. In 2002, those numbers were $13.2 billion for America, and $29.9 billion for Europe. (Source: New York Times)
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LastQuark
- Posts: 749
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Great posts here. This is my last post about this subject as it goes way beyond the Tsunami thread and 8mm filmshooting.
I must agree in most of the posts that religion created confusion. After all, why go to a religion when one can go direct to God?
I may be going too far but, surprisingly, no one quoted what is written in the Word:
http://www.purechristianity.org
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I must agree in most of the posts that religion created confusion. After all, why go to a religion when one can go direct to God?
I may be going too far but, surprisingly, no one quoted what is written in the Word:
MATTHEW 24:23 "Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before."
Several religions existed because of their own interpretation on one similar book - the Bible.MATTHEW 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
This is where the confusion begins. People overlooked at the fact that God spoke in parables:JOHN 1:1,14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The interpretation of the Bible comes from the Bible itself and NOT from human interpretation that is widely practiced today among most religions:Ezek. 20:49: Don’t you know that I speak in parables...
Further discussions will be in another site. Go to:Isa 28:10 KJV “For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little.”
http://www.purechristianity.org
ÂÂ
Ah, but the US will save the world again, do not fear.
And on the back of rednecks, so beloved, it will.
And evil corporations, not Moore, have opened wallets.
And while Roger is waiting for his aid check from the EU, may I remind you--that socialist paradise exist solely on the good will of the US consumer.
And on the back of rednecks, so beloved, it will.
And evil corporations, not Moore, have opened wallets.
And while Roger is waiting for his aid check from the EU, may I remind you--that socialist paradise exist solely on the good will of the US consumer.
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steve hyde
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ha ha...this thread is really hilarious and full of passion and incoherence. Just like life... There is a film in all of this you know. Good films push people's buttons in good ways -- in bad ways -- they make people angry -- they make people think. They make people question Truth (s).... I say there is a film in all of this...and actually one has already been made "The Day My God Died" Directed by Andrew Levine on a 150,000 USD budget provided by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. It's shot on video and it's REALLY interesting.
Don't blow a fuse :roll:
Steve
Don't blow a fuse :roll:
Steve
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Alex
For those who equate the Tsunami with God causing it for a reason, the problem is the interpretation can be completely reversed.
We heard one interpretation that the region "was asking for it".
How about the reverse? God decided to save the innocent children who were being abused by having them die BEFORE they grew up to become abusers themselves. In this way, God saved all of the young ones by having them go to heaven before they became sinners themselves and went to hell.
I don't believe the above, I'm merely pointing out that the Tsunami can be interpeted differently by different religions (as has been pointed out by others on this thread already). The above interpretation can also lead to children becoming suicide bombers and the like. Yech!
It's a shame the bible never mentioned looking to the scientifically educated for some explanations of the worlds ills, rather it appears the bible is supposed to proved THE answer to EVERY problem ever manifested, or at least that's what ultra religious types would want others to believe.
We heard one interpretation that the region "was asking for it".
How about the reverse? God decided to save the innocent children who were being abused by having them die BEFORE they grew up to become abusers themselves. In this way, God saved all of the young ones by having them go to heaven before they became sinners themselves and went to hell.
I don't believe the above, I'm merely pointing out that the Tsunami can be interpeted differently by different religions (as has been pointed out by others on this thread already). The above interpretation can also lead to children becoming suicide bombers and the like. Yech!
It's a shame the bible never mentioned looking to the scientifically educated for some explanations of the worlds ills, rather it appears the bible is supposed to proved THE answer to EVERY problem ever manifested, or at least that's what ultra religious types would want others to believe.
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Alex
Sorry about your accident. I won't review your original post but I seem to recall you quoted me and then made a comment about not donating. I was pointing out that it was ironic to criticize someone about whether they had donated or not on a forum where you hadn't donated to.Bunner wrote:Alex wroteYou completely missed my response last time. Make sure you read before you respond next time. "I dont have money to throw around" I donated to the red cross disaster fund.. that is the only important thing to donate to right now. thats the best 'I' can do. I am a survivor from a horrible freakish accident that almost took my life 2 years ago and i am paying the bill for that, so please let that be. And besides, my posts were about doing what you mean, not about criticism if people donate. its about if you intend to do something, then make sure you do it.As for the donation to this forum, don't insult people about their intentions in regards whether they are donating or not on a forum that you have not made a donation to, surely you can see the irony in that, no?
If you are new here don't feel that as pressure to donate to this forum.
"Doing something" is open to interpretation. Raising awareness is doing something.