The Supermag 400 is now ready!

[ccortez]

The footage shot with the first prototype is the first commercial. Yes, it is horrific. But it was only a test to find the bugs in the system. I found out many things from that test. The second test was much better but still there were issues with the scratches and with the gate plate not seating properly. Those have since been resolved. The third and last test was said to be "Rock steady" and only a "few" scratches but for the most part clean. The exposure was off because I didn't have a filter and the film sent to me by Pro 8 was old stock they had laying around the shop for who knows how long? It isn't the mag's fault. The fogging was probably due to me handling the film with my bare hands in the dark. Try that sometime and you'll know what I'm saying. It's hard not to scratch or touch the emulsion when transfering it onto another core by hand. These are minor issues to deal with. The one certainty in this project is that the magazine does work....and it works well. The camera used for the tests isn't the best quality machine and the film wasn't the best either. But remember. These were to test the mag's performance not the film or operator. Give me a break....I've put a hell of a lot of money and time into this project. If you feel you can do better, go for it. Otherwise, shut up and go back to your cave.

Grrrr!


Dave
Inventor of the Supermag

Dude.

Everybody here is trying to help you make more money by pointing out that the quality of your demonstration demeans the quality and achievement of your product.

Many here, myself included, would love to help you sell more of them by assisting in improving your presentation.

We love the Supermag, b/c we love all things Super 8, DIY, and ridiculously overreaching. Let us help you.

[Lunar07]

You putting lots of money is no excuse for EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL that is shining in that post of yours. You posted that on a public forum, so you have to withstand some POSITIVE criticism. If you can not handle it, it is YOU who should SHUT UP and go back into his cave.

The footage shot with the first prototype is the first commercial. Yes, it is horrific. But it was only a test to find the bugs in the system. I found out many things from that test. The second test was much better but still there were issues with the scratches and with the gate plate not seating properly. Those have since been resolved. The third and last test was said to be "Rock steady" and only a "few" scratches but for the most part clean. The exposure was off because I didn't have a filter and the film sent to me by Pro 8 was old stock they had laying around the shop for who knows how long? It isn't the mag's fault. The fogging was probably due to me handling the film with my bare hands in the dark. Try that sometime and you'll know what I'm saying. It's hard not to scratch or touch the emulsion when transfering it onto another core by hand. These are minor issues to deal with. The one certainty in this project is that the magazine does work....and it works well. The camera used for the tests isn't the best quality machine and the film wasn't the best either. But remember. These were to test the mag's performance not the film or operator. Give me a break....I've put a hell of a lot of money and time into this project. If you feel you can do better, go for it. Otherwise, shut up and go back to your cave.

Grrrr!


Dave
Inventor of the Supermag

[supermag400_inventor]

I'm sorry if I appear unappreciative of your help. I'm not. After all, I'm doing this for you guys as well as myself. I started shooting super 8 when video was a figment of your imagination. I'm just tired of those who don't see that I've struggled with many obsticals in the last months. Now, that I've actually succeeded in building a machine that is practical and works, I find those who sit back and complain about it because it doesn't meet their expectations of perfection, I find it offensive. If they don't buy one right away, I'm not going to cry. I know they work and I've got the confidence in them to believe those who don't buy now, will someday want one, when everyone else has theirs. I'm only building 50 of these units. After that, if the market bears the need for more, I'll do another 50. I haven't got the latest films back yet, so I can't put them on the site. Perhaps, when the better test films are on the web site, those negative people will change their minds. Each day is a step forward....lets not step back. These magazines are not perfection...but then they don't cost thousands of dollars each either. I could extend the warranty on them, but I can't control the quality of the electronics. Most merchandise in the United States only have short limited 90 day warranties. I based it on the fact that the electronics inside the mags are only warrantied for that long.
I'd be stupid to extend it longer than that without being compensated by an extended warranty period. I could extend the warranty period to 1 year, but I'd have to increase the price of the units to cover my costs.

[MovieStuff]

I'm sorry if I appear unappreciative of your help. I'm not. After all, I'm doing this for you guys as well as myself. I started shooting super 8 when video was a figment of your imagination. I'm just tired of those who don't see that I've struggled with many obsticals in the last months. Now, that I've actually succeeded in building a machine that is practical and works, I find those who sit back and complain about it because it doesn't meet their expectations of perfection, I find it offensive.

Then you need to distance yourself from this a bit and take a look at the larger picture. Here are the highlights posted by people that you just told to shut up:

"This is exciting indeed. It's wonderful to see innovation"

"I would be happy to volunteer for a 20 minute sound sync demonstration with the Supermag and my Nagra!"

"yeah, this is great news for sure"

"the price is *really* good"

"Great product potential"

"I'm all for giving someone the benefit of the doubt"

"I hope that poor marketing will not eclipse the excellent engineering that was put behind it"

"I genuinely think it's good for the super8 community"

"It took a lot of time and effort to develop the product"

These are terrific comments, Dave, especially coming from people that are making them on blind faith in your ability to deliver, don't you think? I can tell you from experience that you have to take the bad with the good, particuarly when the bad is, at worst, helpful suggestions that would do nothing but benefit you if you listen:

"Just a thought. I'd like to see some really well composed, well lit and well focused footage"

"just make sure you remove that "commercial" from the site, or nobody will ever dare to buy any of your products. it's probably the worst piece of crap i've ever seen."

"Kinda doesen´t feel like a smart thing to buy, when it is still experimental"

"this footage is truly horrendous. Couldn't they hire or ask a good S8 shooter to bring in some good promo footage?"

"I think that a 90 day warranty is a bit low"

"Horrid film clip"

Your "beef" with these people would be legit if their comments were out of place. I see none that are. This isn't an alturistic venture. You are asking people to hand over $500 which, to a super 8 film maker, is a fortune. It has nothing to do with your investment of time and money; you did this voluntarily. It is totally about their time and money which the $500 represents. The way I see it, the number of good comments in this thread far outweigh the bad comments and the bad comments are all legitimate attempts to help. They are not arm chair comments from people that you should dismiss because they didn't pick up a screw driver and build a SuperMag themselves. They are, in fact, your future customers BECAUSE they can't pick up a screw driver and build a SuperMag themselves. Think about it.

Your magazine is a terrific idea. Your film that demonstrates it isn't. It's just that simple.

Just say, "Sorry. You're right." and make a note of their comments. Don't tell future customers to shut up because they aren't saying what you want to hear after all your work and sweat equity. If they have no right to express their opinion now, will they have a greater right once you have their $500? No one HAS to have this product and telling people that are trying to help you to "shut up" does not speed the P.R. plow for success. Cool down and think about it. I've been there, dude.

Roger
http://www.moviestuff.tv

[Ralph S]

Give me a break....I've put a hell of a lot of money and time into this project. If you feel you can do better, go for it. Otherwise, shut up and go back to your cave.

These are legitimate concerns ( and suggestions for you) that people will have before they are going to spend money on your product. Why the hell are you getting cheesed off at your potential customers?

I have some questions too...
You said the registration is now "rock solid." Do you have some new footage to show us? - because the samples on your website have terrible registration.

Have you tested it with any other camera than the Elmo? Have you given it to anyone else for testing?

Is this one roll of film (that you're making all the excuses for) your basis for saying the supermag is "ready?"

If you still have scratches and fogging, how can you be sure it's not a defect with the supermag?

What does "IMPORTANT NOTICE: ALL OF THE SUPERMAG 400 MAGAZINES ARE SOLD AS "EXPERIMENTAL" mean?

I think we all support your efforts and wish you success, but you need to finish your research & development before asking people to pay $500 for it. That's my suggestion - for your benefit.

[supermag400_inventor]

My apologies to all of you. I don't mean to offend you. I don't mind critisizim if it is deserved. It seems that the words TEST FILM and EXPERIEMTNAL have you all thinking this thing will not work. WRONG!
It does work. However, there are improvements that can still be done to make it even better. I'm not after perfection, just a good working machine to do the job. If you had seen the first prototype, you would have laughed at the idea. It would have made a good ashtray! I'm not saying that I did this simply for fun....I did it to make money. Why else would I do it. But I read many letters from people wanting an alternative to the 50 foot boxes Kodak sell. If super 8 is ever going to survive the VIDEO AGE it's got to evolve. The Supermag was to help in that direction. NO IT"S NOT PERFECT! As far as it being "Experimental" that was suggested to me by Pro 8. Since the mags had not yet reached a higher level of commercial quality since they are not mass produced. I make them by hand and I can make mistakes. The mags would be cheeper if they were mass produced and sold by the thousands, but they aren't. The price is what it is because of the cost of doing business. It's that simple.

As for the quality of the video clips. You must remember, the film stock was old stock Pro 8 had laying around. They didn't want to invest much into the tests until I could prove it worked. Now that I've solved the problems, we will shoot more tests with better film. However, I've only got two Elmo's and one is not working correctly. Pro 8 will have their own mag to use for testing soon. They can run their own tests with their Pro cameras. The magazine module (cartridge part) has exactly the same dimensions as a 50 foot cartridge and should fit any camera. I know it fits the Beaulieu 6008 for sure. We used one to shoot some footage when I was at Pro 8 in Burbank.

Further tests will continue to evaluate the Supermag's capabilities and limitations. This is a work in progress. That's why it's "EXPERIMENTAL" No one has to buy one now, they can wait until they are comfortable with the results of the tests. If you are uncomfortable, I'd rather you wait. I want you to be happy customers ..... and good references.

Happy holidays!

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

To have bad video clips during your testing and fiddling and development is OK, I mean nobody expects your first prototype to be perfect.

But there is no need to display these bad clips, these are for YOU and NOT FOR YOUR CLIENTS to see.

When you have a good clip, then show it. Don´t show stuff from earlier prototypes, it is just stupid to do so.

Who cares for your testfilms from prototypes? It is films from the ready products that people need to see, and it is what they are interested to see.

[Nigel]

I will preface my statement with the fact that I think that this contraption looks great on paper and should sell big.

Here is what I see you are doing wrong and it will mirror the posts before me...

First, if it's not ready don't sell it. Give a couple away to people to "Beta-Test."

Second, don't rely on shitty film to sell you product. It is supposed to improve the tools not hinder them.

Third, get out of bed with Pro8. These guys have left a really bad taste in many many many mouth--Mine for one. I wouldn't trust these guys for any reason.

Fourth, keep pressing ahead slowly and only sell a product that is worth every penny and more.

I spent a lot of money on my Beaulieu over the years and while I can't use your mag on it I don't see the price as being an issue.

Take your time, breathe deeply, and listen.

Good Luck
PS--Screw Microsoft I own a Mac and couldn't watch the clips.

[S8 Booster]

WIMP Player 9 works OK on MAC OSX but why would anyone post WIMP format clips anyway?


Regarding the PROMO:

Dave, most buyers are simple minded. They belive in what they see (which may not be the truth anyway), not what you know though easily understandable for someone with some engineering experience.

Nice product. HQ sample clips will be a big advantage. Rush to shoot but shoot some proper. Maybe 2x60m Fuji F250 from Wittners is a better option than the PRO8 stuff? Possibly proper perfs too.

Second Nigel´s advices.

Great job. Good luck!

R

[matt5791]

Dave -

I think that you could very easily sell many of these mags - but this is my contribution:

1. Ensure you have fully researched the market and assessed the demand This means KNOWING almost exactly where the orders are going to come from - I say this not because I think there will not be enough orders, but because I sense that you will have difficulty satisfying too high a demand for your production capability.

2. Once you have assesed the demand you need to build a stock of units ready for immediate shipping. If you can not ship within 2 weeks people will not wait and you will loose orders (I know Roger takes longer to ship his work printers, but I still say you need to ship as quickly as possible, and also I would guess the workprinter appeals (in part) to a different market with different demands)

3. Where is the demand going to originate from - I would suggest that it will not be the low budgeters, but the professionals.

4. Have you really thought about the price? $500 sound like far too little. If someone wants to use this professional nich product they will pay more than this, that I am sure of. I would suggest it is wildly underpriced - it should be at least $1000.

5. The likley market for this product will want reliability - and 90day warranty for a new piece of kit is just not good enough and suggests you don't have a lot of confidence in the reliability of the product yourself. You need to offer a warranty comparable with the market trends, which I would suggest is 12 months.

6. You MUST remove the film clips on your website immediately. And when you produce new ones make sure the footage is interesting and also ensure that the voice over is performed so that it doesn't sound like it is just being read from a page for the first time, and that the narrator knows how to pronounce works like Nizo and Beaulieu. Also I would say using a narrator with an alternative accent is a good idea, but if it is English, there are a multitude of these and I would suggest that (to English ears anyway) a Lancashire (or is it Yorkshire) accent is not the most suitable for this product. Scottish would be ideal - always sound sort of trustworthy (to other British people anyway, don't know about the rest of the world).


I say these things because I think that you have a product that is potentially a really good seller - but so many excellent products have failed not because of lack of demand but because of too much demand or too low a price, or unreliable supply time etc. - and that is really sad.

Matt
PS I know some people will disagree with me about the price - but I think selling it for so little is making a big mistake. Are you in it to make money and ear a living out of it, or are you in it as a charity? If your aim is to just benefit the film making community, then that is great - keep the price at $500.

[Taqi]

Also I would say using a narrator with an alternative accent is a good idea, but if it is English, there are a multitude of these and I would suggest that (to English ears anyway) a Lancashire (or is it Yorkshire) accent is not the most suitable for this product. Scottish would be ideal - always sound sort of trustworthy (to other British people anyway, don't know about the rest of the world).

Ahhhh. Glasgow or Edinburgh? Or Highlands and Islands?

It's quite interesting to see what impressions accents make - it plays on all kinds of preconceptions. Imagine the voiceover in cockney.. or scouse.

As for the magazine I would be very interested in buying one, and indeed I am tentatively looking for a 6080 to bolt it to. However I would need to know that the scratches / fogging issues are resolved and I would like to see a a proper, 20 minute test film which includes test charts for stability / registration etc. There are several offers of help in this thread - I would strongly advise you take them up.


ps - Pro8's involvement is a BIG minus. Don't let your reputation be tarnished by theirs.

[matt5791]

Also I would say using a narrator with an alternative accent is a good idea, but if it is English, there are a multitude of these and I would suggest that (to English ears anyway) a Lancashire (or is it Yorkshire) accent is not the most suitable for this product. Scottish would be ideal - always sound sort of trustworthy (to other British people anyway, don't know about the rest of the world).

Ahhhh. Glasgow or Edinburgh? Or Highlands and Islands?

It's quite interesting to see what impressions accents make - it plays on all kinds of preconceptions. Imagine the voiceover in cockney.. or scouse.

Absolutely. I just think that the current accent is not suitable for this type of product - it makes me think of certain supermarket and DIY chain commercials here where the "customers" or the "shop assistants" are takling to camera and always seem to have the friendly "calls a spade a spade" northern accent - ideal, but it doesn't seem to fit with the Supermag.

Matt

[MovieMaker]

ps - Pro8's involvement is a BIG minus. Don't let your reputation be tarnished by theirs.

Maybe Andec in Berlin is an alternative because they sell the Fuji F500T and the F250D also by meter/feet. 1 meter / 3,4 ft cost Euro 1,- plus VAT.

Could then be easily wound in a dark tent onto the Supermag reels?!

MovieMaker

[studiocarter]

Anybody have Patrick Stewart's number?

Could we see that complete list of suitable cameras to use?
How about a list of sellers of 400 ft spools or cores of S8 film?
This is pre-slit S8 USA film, right? 8mm wide? Like Straight 8 but not the same as IT?
What are all the different films one could use in it? (Could you use Straight8?)
How about step by step assembly and loading / unloading clips?
And then a list of film processors for the different types?

Perhaps if you owned the domain and the ISP account and did your own web pages you could update the site much faster instead of waiting for someone else to do it and you wouldn't need to pay them each time you wanted to update something. The last link didn't work.

Michael Carter

[studiocarter]

The latest film clip is well read. Quality is too low however, perhaps you could offer a CD version or a DVD demo disk.
When the lady says that the mag is easy to use the image shows a complex operation being done?! That didn't jive. Also, the text still reads 90 days and the video says 12 months, the text reads 9 volt battery and the video says 12 volts.
Thank you for having her say that vertially any top loading S8 camera may be used and any S8 (USA?) film.