K40 discontinued, but when?

[filmbuff]

And for all those talking about the archival benefits of K40, it cannot compete with a DVD disc that can be copied to new formats as the come. One can have the exact same quality 300 years from now on a "DVD" (or whatever they are called then), but your precious K40 will not have the same quality in 300 years...

LMAO!

[filmbuff]

However, when she set up her super 8 projector in the classroom and ran the film, it was not well received at all. In fact, the students and the teachers did not like it one bit.

Not suprising that College teachers would be so closed minded. That's all I saw in my College days :roll:

[timdrage]

One can have the exact same quality 300 years from now on a "DVD"

8O



300 years from now chances your DVD will be a nice round mirror and nothing more! Even if the media actually survives for anywhere near that long, what are you going to play it on!? You think it'll be easy to find a working 300 year old DVD player or PC!? :roll:

EDIT - Ok, you did mention copying to newer media... but still, the DVD format will be completely obsolete relatively soon... I have some files and applications from a mere decade or two ago that would require major dredging up of old soft + hardware (or emulation possibly) to read, simply not compatable with modern systems. Think how esoteric knowledge of today's digital stuff will be compared to techology of the future... especially since increasingly info about computers is largely on the internet and often dissapears forever as soon as it's no longer cutting edge.

I bet my Mac Plus will still work fine for a few more centuries tho! :lol:


As for Kodachrome, I hope they keep it AND bring out nice new (preferably cheap + process paid too) film as well!

[reflex]

And for all those talking about the archival benefits of K40, it cannot compete with a DVD disc that can be copied to new formats as the come. One can have the exact same quality 300 years from now on a "DVD" (or whatever they are called then), but your precious K40 will not have the same quality in 300 years...

You owe me a beer.

Go ahead and transfer your work to DVD, but for heaven's sake store the film originals. Among other things, DVD is a compressed medium - horrible for archiving. Add that to the instability of the dyes used in DVD-R media, and you're in trouble.

30 years from now when your digital files are long gone and you want some footage to show at your kid's wedding, get your film transferred to the media-of-the-minute to watch on your shiny new Holographophone.

Then remember that I suggested it, and send a case of the finest brew you can find.

I'll be waiting.

[T-Scan]

Transferring to digital only maintains my original films.. which are kept safe and clean while i'm able to edit on the PC. no longer do i make perminant splices on my precious film.

[monobath]

I'd like to see an E6 stock or two available in S8, but I'm still going to want to use K40 too. I'd like to be able to use K25, for that matter. They are both beautiful films, and are far more archival than other color reversal stocks.

Even so, an E6 stock would be nice, as I could process it myself. I'm processing E6 still film, why not cine film? I'd like a medium speed tungsten film, say ASA 64 to ASA 100, a low speed daylight film around ASA 25, and a high speed daylight film, say ASA 200.

[Nigel]

Did Ovid write for 2000 years after his death?? No.

Did Shakespere write for four hundred years after his death?? No.

The hubrice of what you say. What makes you think that people 300 years from now will give a flying shit about what you or I made--That's absurd. To think that K40 will be here and people will be able to view these little strips 300 years from now is just as absurd.

The fact is that film is only 100 years old and there is very very very little of what was shot then that is here for us to watch. And, it's a good thing. Since it is crap.

K40 is old news and makes pictures that look like old news...If by the grace of God I make something that generations feel is good enough to tell down the line then it really doesn't matter what it was made with.

K40 Be Damned.

Good Luck

[matt5791]

I do enjoy projecting my camera original, but I prefer to transfer so as to keep it safe and prevent wear and damage.

The reason that Super8 exits as a viable format today is, ironically, because of the digital revolution.

The fact that transfers can be made easily and anyone can edit their films with off the shelf software has meant that the format (and all film formats for that matter) has remained, and become more, viable to originate on.

I personally love originating on film and then editing and presenting digitally (although that doesn't stop me wanting to shoot, edit and present on film too!)

I am certain that without the availability of cheap software and transfers the format would have continued the decline started in the 1980's.

Matt

[Rob]

The fact that transfers can be made easily and anyone can edit their films with off the shelf software has meant that the format (and all film formats for that matter) has remained, and become more, viable to originate on.
Matt

I doubt digital editing is the reason S8 has survived. Kodak sells several hundred thousand S8 cartridges each year, mostly K40 and I doubt many of these end up being transferred to digital media. The still extensive amateur market provides the infrastructure (the cartridge manufacturing equipment, the packaging equipment, the distribution system etc) on which the professional market rides. Whilst the amateur infrastructure exists its no trouble to drop a few negative stocks into a handful of cartridges to satisfy the professional market. Without the amateur infrastructure, these stocks would not be available. Sniffy professionals who dont like k40 take note. Your living depends on it.

Rob

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

Filmbuff wrote:

LMAO!

What does that mean? :roll:

Timdrage wrote:

the DVD format will be completely obsolete relatively soon... I have some files and applications from a mere decade or two ago that would require major dredging up of old soft + hardware (or emulation possibly) to read

I really don´t think it will be impossible to read DVS´s. Think about it, how many DVD players have been sold? It is a very widely spread format, people have a lot of DVD´s they want to be able to play. Someone will supply a player. And I think they can be copied to a future format.

Reflex wrote:

Go ahead and transfer your work to DVD, but for heaven's sake store the film originals.

Of course, why throw it away? Always keep the originals, if one should ever need them they are good to have.

Reflex wrote:

DVD is a compressed medium - horrible for archiving. Add that to the instability of the dyes used in DVD-R media, and you're in trouble.

DVD´s are only compressed if they are "movie-discs". Not if you use them as "data-discs", then you can use whatever codec you want to, uncompressed if you prefer it!

But why not store your "original-transferred-digital-datafiles" as digital originals and make a different set of discs that are edited and compressed to todays DVD standard. Whenever you feel like it you can take your digital-originals and make a new set of whatever-format there will be in the future.

Reflex wrote:

30 years from now when your digital files are long gone and you want some footage to show at your kid's wedding, get your film transferred to the media-of-the-minute to watch on your shiny new Holographophone.

Nah, I have my digital originals and have no need of a retransfer. And if the manufacturer gives a 100 year expected lifetime of the DVD´s they should last 30 years. After 30 years you can make a new set of digital originals to your shiny new Holographophone.

And you can bing me that case of beer so we can share it, laughing at those old movie-DVD´s that were compressed!

Nigel wrote:

The hubrice of what you say. What makes you think that people 300 years from now will give a flying shit about what you or I made--That's absurd. To think that K40 will be here and people will be able to view these little strips 300 years from now is just as absurd.

Well I think the children of my children of my children would think it is cool to see how things looked like in the year 2004. I would think it was very interesting to see the life of people in 1700.

I don´t think it is possible to see a roll of K40 in 300 years, but I do however think it is possible to copy the film from digital to digital format as they come without losing quality.


For all of you that fear that you will not be able to see your digital films or JPEG files:

Think about how many have JPEG pictures and DVD´s that have very important and interesting pictures. I really don´t think there will be a future computer not being able to display JPEG´s or AVI files (yes AVI files can be stored on a DVD, there is no need to compress the film to Mpeg2 and author a film-disc).

[Taqi]

Did Ovid write for 2000 years after his death?? No.

Did Shakespere write for four hundred years after his death?? No.

Do people still read Ovid? - Yes

Do people still perform Shakespeare? - Yes


There was a film out last year called Troy. Hmmm.

In 300 years time? Films I make may be small and crappy, but, to quote Ovid, gutta cavat lapidem....

[matt5791]

I doubt digital editing is the reason S8 has survived.

This is absolutely the reason.

Kodak sells several hundred thousand S8 cartridges each year, mostly K40 and I doubt many of these end up being transferred to digital media.

How do you know?

The still extensive amateur market provides the infrastructure (the cartridge manufacturing equipment, the packaging equipment, the distribution system etc) on which the professional market rides. Whilst the amateur infrastructure exists its no trouble to drop a few negative stocks into a handful of cartridges to satisfy the professional market. Without the amateur infrastructure, these stocks would not be available. Sniffy professionals who dont like k40 take note. Your living depends on it.

Rob

You have it back to front.

I don't have access to sales figures and market trends for any of the super8 stocks, however there are three markets, all represented on this forum:

Amateur home movie makers
Amateur film / music video makers
Professional users

The home movie maker market is the only one who project super8 film.

Anyone who needs to edit their work substantially (ie the other two groups) either have to: cut on film or cut digitally.

Cutting on film in super8 is not viable which means that it is all edited digitally - without this ability these people would not be using the format. I would suggest that these two groups form the largest market for the format.

The fact is that the format is substantially a capture medium which ends up being presented in different formats.

Matt

[timdrage]

The fact is that film is only 100 years old and there is very very very little of what was shot then that is here for us to watch. And, it's a good thing. Since it is crap.

:lol: Unbelievable statement! Ignorance is strength, eh? :roll: Hope you're joking more than I think you are!

To think that K40 will be here and people will be able to view these little strips 300 years from now is just as absurd.

Well, post-apocalyptic folks finding rolls of super-8 in the rubble of civilisation will be able to hold it up to the light and see the little pictures! Having said that, they'll probably find those mysterious shiney round things more useful, as mirrors etc. Maybe build a solar furnace?

Anyway, we're all wrong in this arguement; let's hope film and digital BOTH survive and remain usable for as long as possible! And I for one hope K40 keeps going for a good while yet. I like it, and if other people don't then maybe they'll just not use it, rather than resenting it's very existance!

[Angus]

I've been around long enough to have heard the death of Kodachrome predicted so many times that it really bores me to death.

There is a simple fact that I keep banging into people's heads.

Far too many pro photographers rely on Kodachrome slide film in 35mm format for Kodak to seriously consider axing it. The negative press would be so great it would likely force Kodak into serious trouble.

While the 35mm film continues, I trust the super 8 will to as there is nothing to be gained from ditching a product that is actually turning in a profit for Kodak.

[Rob]

You have it back to front.

I don't have access to sales figures and market trends for any of the super8 stocks, however there are three markets, all represented on this forum:

Amateur home movie makers
Amateur film / music video makers
Professional users

The home movie maker market is the only one who project super8 film.

Anyone who needs to edit their work substantially (ie the other two groups) either have to: cut on film or cut digitally.

I presume you agree that Kodak sells several hundred thousand S8 cartridges per year (check other threads here if you doubt it). If the market is not driven by amateurs, there must be an awful lot of pop videos being made. Are we to believe that professionals are hoovering up truck loads of k40 (by far the biggest selling S8 stock) every year?

Rob