The bumps are irregular. So I estimate there are different size components underneath the seal. The pins resemble indeed serie-resistor components but then it these would all have the same size underneath the plastic.S8 Booster wrote:aj wrote:Looks like a typical series resistor to me.These IC's are very unlikey for the late 70's. They probably are small printboards with components on them and then sealed. That is why they are so bumpy.
R
What makes the Leicina Special so Special!
Moderator: Andreas Wideroe
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aj
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Kind regards,
André
André
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S8 Booster
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Possible. I do not get a good view from it on my screen.
Just thought it might have been an irregulart type for uneven values - motor speed, ISO setting or so. Anyway, no big deal.
R
Just thought it might have been an irregulart type for uneven values - motor speed, ISO setting or so. Anyway, no big deal.
R
..tnx for reminding me Michael Lehnert.... or Santo or.... cinematography.com super8 - the forum of Rednex, Wannabees and Pretenders...
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Sparky
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They are difference amps- one to control the motor speed and one to control the meter/optivaron iris motor. I used the term hybrid wrongly- as aj suggests I think they are discrete components on a little pcb encapsulated into an "IC" of sorts- probably to make it difficult for people to fix if it went wrong- you would have to buy the very expensive part from Leitz rather than replace the transistor cheaply- they had to make money somehow ;-) ) OR to save a bit of space.
That Quartz looks really nice- thanks. I'm almost tempted to look out for one. I really like that military grade Russian style- the companies were I think government owned and things were done differently there. Quite reminiscent of a lot of German engineering in fact! (maybe a bit klunkier and with a little less finess though ) (my opinion ;-) )
Tantalum caps are generally used for space saving and nowadays for their low ESR- they have extremely high capacity/volume. They also last longer than electrolytics. They are susceptable to reverse polarity (like regular electrolytics) and can be desroyed by high inrush currents. They are expensive. Lets not argue any more about silly details- I'm sure if you saw the innards of this camera in the flesh you would change your mind about its quality.
Leitz always had a funny way with plastics. That was the most disappointing thing for me when I first got my special. The knobs are quite ugly and plasticy and don't exude the quality that is revealed when you look inside, or that I expected. I guess that was the the 70's way in general though and doesn't impact on the function of the camera.
If you look carefully at the photos you'll see that there is a nylon gear in the special (shock horror!)- I too was a bit disappointed, but I'm sure they had a reason for it. It is the drive shaft for the film cart, and drives a micro switch for I'm not sure what, and the film usage display (removed in the photos) Nylon is durable, low friction so doesn't really need lubing, and is quieter than metal on metal. There is another between the motor gear (steel) and the brass shutter shaft gear- probably for reduced noise and because its a good idea to use different materials in a gear train like this where lube can't be guaranteed.
I don't think that the Special is particularly over hyped on this board is it? There are far more posts acclaiming the greatness of the Canon 1014 and its brethren, and even the Eumig Nautica probably gets more written about it.(fine cameras that they both are, I'm sure).
The Leicina Special is a great camera too, thats all!
That Quartz looks really nice- thanks. I'm almost tempted to look out for one. I really like that military grade Russian style- the companies were I think government owned and things were done differently there. Quite reminiscent of a lot of German engineering in fact! (maybe a bit klunkier and with a little less finess though ) (my opinion ;-) )
Tantalum caps are generally used for space saving and nowadays for their low ESR- they have extremely high capacity/volume. They also last longer than electrolytics. They are susceptable to reverse polarity (like regular electrolytics) and can be desroyed by high inrush currents. They are expensive. Lets not argue any more about silly details- I'm sure if you saw the innards of this camera in the flesh you would change your mind about its quality.
Leitz always had a funny way with plastics. That was the most disappointing thing for me when I first got my special. The knobs are quite ugly and plasticy and don't exude the quality that is revealed when you look inside, or that I expected. I guess that was the the 70's way in general though and doesn't impact on the function of the camera.
If you look carefully at the photos you'll see that there is a nylon gear in the special (shock horror!)- I too was a bit disappointed, but I'm sure they had a reason for it. It is the drive shaft for the film cart, and drives a micro switch for I'm not sure what, and the film usage display (removed in the photos) Nylon is durable, low friction so doesn't really need lubing, and is quieter than metal on metal. There is another between the motor gear (steel) and the brass shutter shaft gear- probably for reduced noise and because its a good idea to use different materials in a gear train like this where lube can't be guaranteed.
I don't think that the Special is particularly over hyped on this board is it? There are far more posts acclaiming the greatness of the Canon 1014 and its brethren, and even the Eumig Nautica probably gets more written about it.(fine cameras that they both are, I'm sure).
The Leicina Special is a great camera too, thats all!
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matt5791
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A totally off topic side comment:Santo wrote:I don't know, but that car came with a plaque listing the long list of F1 victories which were the car's namesake. And, as you may be aware, the McLaren F1, with only a couple of modifications, went straight from the street to the race track and won the 24 hours of Le Mans -- twice I believe. Completely outrageous. No other car has done that in about about 30 years (the original Ford F40). Ten years or so after its introduction, the F1 still bests everything in every perfomance category, including the new Ferrari Enzo, and examples exchange hands ABOVE what it cost new (about 1.5 million or so according to Sports Car Market magazine the other month). All with a cost no object build quality and performance not seen since the Duesenberg Model J "20 Grand" from the 1920's. You ever seen one up close? With a few of the body panels lifted up? You can literally see why it cost a million bucks.
A couple of friends of mine were motor traders specialising in high end exoticia. However one of them had lost his driving license.
He went to view a McLaren F1 road car the owner wanted them to sell on his behalf. During the meeting and their discussion the owner casually threw the keys at this guy and said "you better just take it for a drive to check it over"!!! His respose was Errrrrr...well I can't actually.
The car was parked in the street and every single passer by stopped to look. Even an ambulance (with full lights and sirens blaring) slowed down almost to a standstill to have a look!
Matt
Birmingham UK.
http://www.wells-photography.co.uk
Avatar: Kenneth Moore (left) with producers (centre) discussing forthcoming film to be financed by my grandfather (right) C.1962
http://www.wells-photography.co.uk
Avatar: Kenneth Moore (left) with producers (centre) discussing forthcoming film to be financed by my grandfather (right) C.1962
Re: What makes the Leicina Special so Special!
Ten years on since this thread was started (but a "flash in the pan" since the camera was made!). It's no surprise that the linked photos are now missing, but it would be great to see them if they are still on hand.
I would love to see the insides of this camera and get some hints on how to open up the Leicina Special and free up a stuck mechanism. (I'm praying that the motor is still good).
After saving for quite a while, I had one sent to me in the post but I am gutted as the camera seems to be jammed. The battery deflection (dolls eye) indicator shows the batteries as good. All the knobs are in the correct position (according to the user manual) , but when the trigger is pressed it just makes a single click. The click sounds different when the camera is powered off, so I still have hope for the best. I don't know if the stronger click when powered is the motor kicking in, or just a relay clicking over.
I'll wait and see if the package was shipped with insurance and if I have any support from the seller and take it from there.
Cheers everyone!
I would love to see the insides of this camera and get some hints on how to open up the Leicina Special and free up a stuck mechanism. (I'm praying that the motor is still good).
After saving for quite a while, I had one sent to me in the post but I am gutted as the camera seems to be jammed. The battery deflection (dolls eye) indicator shows the batteries as good. All the knobs are in the correct position (according to the user manual) , but when the trigger is pressed it just makes a single click. The click sounds different when the camera is powered off, so I still have hope for the best. I don't know if the stronger click when powered is the motor kicking in, or just a relay clicking over.
I'll wait and see if the package was shipped with insurance and if I have any support from the seller and take it from there.
Cheers everyone!
Re: What makes the Leicina Special so Special!
This camera has single frame and time exposure functions selectable on a knob on the side of the camera (marked '1' and 'T'). You're probably aware of this, but it can't hurt to ask.rickam wrote: . . . when the trigger is pressed it just makes a single click. The click sounds different when the camera is powered off, so I still have hope for the best. I don't know if the stronger click when powered is the motor kicking in, or just a relay clicking over. . . .
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aj
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Re: What makes the Leicina Special so Special!
Too bad that the machine is not functioning yet.rickam wrote:Ten years on since this thread was started (but a "flash in the pan" since the camera was made!). It's no surprise that the linked photos are now missing, but it would be great to see them if they are still on hand.
I would love to see the insides of this camera and get some hints on how to open up the Leicina Special and free up a stuck mechanism. (I'm praying that the motor is still good).
After saving for quite a while, I had one sent to me in the post but I am gutted as the camera seems to be jammed. The battery deflection (dolls eye) indicator shows the batteries as good. All the knobs are in the correct position (according to the user manual) , but when the trigger is pressed it just makes a single click. The click sounds different when the camera is powered off, so I still have hope for the best. I don't know if the stronger click when powered is the motor kicking in, or just a relay clicking over.
I'll wait and see if the package was shipped with insurance and if I have any support from the seller and take it from there.
Cheers everyone!
Is the leatherette on the frontpanel even? I.e. not opened and glued back before.
Mind that the camera has a second release on top.
You can also attempt to control it with a ST-1.
And have the cartridge-bay door fully closed.
Check the super8wiki for some brief Leicina Special disassembly instructions.
What has the shipping insurance got to do with it?
If you used Paypal and the camera is not as described you could possibly use their insurance. I.e. ship back and get your money back.
People who offer and sell 10 cameras per month are well aware how to do basic tests. Often these routine sellers state to have not tested the camera, that is a trick popular with German business sellers to not have to declare it as broken and thus avoid liability. You should then (have) assume(d) it is not working. Occasionly sellers of grandpa's gear are mostly really unaware
Another trick is to sell incomplete equipment (without battery clips or transformers etc) and after complaining to get the reply that they are no required to list what they are not selling.Kind regards,
André
André
Re: What makes the Leicina Special so Special!
The leicina Special , sounds like there a motor problem ? send the camera back ,
The Leicina Special to me is a very special camera , It/s really worth taking your time a finding one that being CLA and working well , you pay more but it.s worth the bucks long term .
The Leicina Special to me is a very special camera , It/s really worth taking your time a finding one that being CLA and working well , you pay more but it.s worth the bucks long term .
Re: What makes the Leicina Special so Special!
Thanks for all the good information.
It's a very good point that was mentioned about auction sites and old electronics. Sometimes they go into the shed working, and 15 years later they are not always tested before being sold on. Or sometimes the sellers are not always honest; I bought a starter motor for my old SAAB 900 in Germany and it arrived without a stator or brushes (just a shell). The sellers response: "the General 1, you 0". And to make matters worse, I was optimistic and did not test the unit before installing it - It was a lesson learned.
The Leicina Special looks amazing, and I love it (or at least the idea and look of it). But I need to decide if I'm going to send it back, claim on postal insurance, or just accept it and try to fix it. I accept that there would be no affordable commercial outfit that would repair this model or have any spare parts for it. On the other hand, "Ugly is as ugly does" and if it can't shoot a film, it's not a camera and she goes back! Just like buying an old car, you generally buy an old working car and improve it. Not a wreck that may never run (unless they are giving it away).
Without an electronic schematic, it could be a challenge, especially with those potted components mentioned in a previous post.
This camera has a reverse function for the lap dissolve, so that means there will probably be an "H Bridge" circuit on board consisting of 4 transistors in addition to whatever sequencing circuits are in place. Maybe that is toast?
If I decide to keep and open the unit, I will first check the motor, and gear train, and then work my way back. It also has 4 speeds. 9,18,25, 54 FPS. So there should be be 4 different value capacitors to set the PWM speeds to the motor, and onboard potentiometers or to tune them.
I still have my fingers crossed that it may spring to life, but it's doubtful.
It's a very good point that was mentioned about auction sites and old electronics. Sometimes they go into the shed working, and 15 years later they are not always tested before being sold on. Or sometimes the sellers are not always honest; I bought a starter motor for my old SAAB 900 in Germany and it arrived without a stator or brushes (just a shell). The sellers response: "the General 1, you 0". And to make matters worse, I was optimistic and did not test the unit before installing it - It was a lesson learned.
The Leicina Special looks amazing, and I love it (or at least the idea and look of it). But I need to decide if I'm going to send it back, claim on postal insurance, or just accept it and try to fix it. I accept that there would be no affordable commercial outfit that would repair this model or have any spare parts for it. On the other hand, "Ugly is as ugly does" and if it can't shoot a film, it's not a camera and she goes back! Just like buying an old car, you generally buy an old working car and improve it. Not a wreck that may never run (unless they are giving it away).
Without an electronic schematic, it could be a challenge, especially with those potted components mentioned in a previous post.
This camera has a reverse function for the lap dissolve, so that means there will probably be an "H Bridge" circuit on board consisting of 4 transistors in addition to whatever sequencing circuits are in place. Maybe that is toast?
If I decide to keep and open the unit, I will first check the motor, and gear train, and then work my way back. It also has 4 speeds. 9,18,25, 54 FPS. So there should be be 4 different value capacitors to set the PWM speeds to the motor, and onboard potentiometers or to tune them.
I still have my fingers crossed that it may spring to life, but it's doubtful.
Re: What makes the Leicina Special so Special!
Well, it's been a few months and I'm back on the case of the Leicina Special. I've done my best to find the schematics of the unit but all I've managed to dig up are a few clues and whispers that the service manual or wiring diagram is indeed out there, but proving difficult to find.
So what I've decided to do, Is connect the motor of my RT-1 to the circuits of the Special to see if it runs. Changing the motor on these cameras is not an easy task.
My current plan is to gut the electronics of my Special and RT-1 and map them out. The RT-1 is working, but I'm so curious now, that I'm willing to sacrifice the cameras to learn more about them but. Folks that are familiar with the Leicina S8 cameras know that there are several black potted circuits in the cameras. They are modules that are easy to access (suggesting to me that they have a tendency to fail). If I can identify one as bad I will conduct an autopsy but if anyone out there has the circuit diagrams it could save a lot of work! Here is a list of them:
RT-1 contains:
302.069.001
302.069.002
302.069.006 (connects to trigger switches, main relay)
Special contains:
302.069.004
302.069.006 (common with RT-1)
So what I've decided to do, Is connect the motor of my RT-1 to the circuits of the Special to see if it runs. Changing the motor on these cameras is not an easy task.
My current plan is to gut the electronics of my Special and RT-1 and map them out. The RT-1 is working, but I'm so curious now, that I'm willing to sacrifice the cameras to learn more about them but. Folks that are familiar with the Leicina S8 cameras know that there are several black potted circuits in the cameras. They are modules that are easy to access (suggesting to me that they have a tendency to fail). If I can identify one as bad I will conduct an autopsy but if anyone out there has the circuit diagrams it could save a lot of work! Here is a list of them:
RT-1 contains:
302.069.001
302.069.002
302.069.006 (connects to trigger switches, main relay)
Special contains:
302.069.004
302.069.006 (common with RT-1)
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cosmos1999
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Re: What makes the Leicina Special so Special!
Hello,
I'm new on this forum, and I'm happy to find film shooting enthusiasts.
Actually, I would like to disassemble my Leicina Special and do a CLA.
It's a nice camera, and runs supposedly well at each speed...without film cartridge: with a cartridge loaded in, the camera stops after ~20 seconds like jammed. I suspect something wrong with the finger button that is automatically pressed when the cartridge is loaded in, related with the film meter, but I don't know exactly.
Are Sparky's disassembling photos still available somewhere?
I'm new on this forum, and I'm happy to find film shooting enthusiasts.
Actually, I would like to disassemble my Leicina Special and do a CLA.
It's a nice camera, and runs supposedly well at each speed...without film cartridge: with a cartridge loaded in, the camera stops after ~20 seconds like jammed. I suspect something wrong with the finger button that is automatically pressed when the cartridge is loaded in, related with the film meter, but I don't know exactly.
Are Sparky's disassembling photos still available somewhere?