The New Super8 Standard & Camera

[S8 Booster]

- Never To Be

If a new Super8 camera was to be designed it could implement the following features:

• SuperDuper quasi 16:9 gate format.
• Digital sound recording or system (+TC) on a magnetic "balance" track/perf side.
(existing Digital DCC? technology available from Phillips)
• Stop pin for improved registratiion.
• Using improved sound carts 15m & 60m or supermag.

Personaly I would not overcomplex it - just plain simple as a 16 or 35mm cam otherwise costs would rocket skywards.

Of course it will never gonna be.

I am very fine off with the "old stuff" as is. just thoughts.

R

[reflex]

Actually, I'd prefer to see someone focus upon a low cost Super 16 camera for mass production -- take the concept of the A-Cam one step further, eventually to include a reflex viewfinder and "standardized" video tap mount at a semi-pro price -- say around EUR2500 (yes, what I really want is a super-cheap A-Minima).

I'm sure that with the incredible leaps that have been made in rapid tool prototyping since the mid-1990s, this is not as far-fetched as it sounds. The only problem is that you'd need some quite skilled industrial designers with a varied background.

Super 16 would offer much higher image quality than Super 8, is widescreen friendly (which I think may be the death of Super 8 because it'll look awful transfered to HD with an almost 4:3 aspect ratio) and really isn't that more much more expensive to work with.

Reflex

[Nigel]

Please avoid shooting this Horse Skeleton...

Good Luck

[reflex]

Please avoid shooting this Horse Skeleton...

Well, we could all sit around this forum growing old and decrepit with our antique cameras, posting threads like, "Gosh, maybe Kodak is starting to market film again (like they ever stopped)," or endless threads like "Is miniDV better than Super 8 (for many things, yes)." That won't get us anywhere. We'll be playing with a dead format, desperately developing film in our cellars, bemoaning how the "young 'uns" just don't get it.

In my "real life" I'm a designer of mass-market computer peripherals, so I've got a pretty good idea of what's required to get a product to market -- and Göran and Daniel at Ikonoskop have proven that (a) you can innovate with low-cost film cameras, and (b) you can make money doing it.

Sigh.

[FILM-THURSO]

Interesting the mention of digital sound. I have been considering this for some time and have some ideas but as yet haven't had time nor money to impliment some action. Personally I'm quite happy that cine cameras record in analogue because the sound quality is very good. The right mic and good filming conditions can give excellent results. I would be looking at recording sound for film in whatever technology made it possible to get a good master for digital or analogue final mixes.
Analogue originals on standard audio tape are good so long as they aren't mixed via 2nd and 3rd generations before reaching the finished film. A digital intermediate helps avoid problems.
Bottom line though, I'd be HUGELY HAPPY if Kodak would just make sound film. They only stopped because they didn't want to spend the money to bring the striping system up to modern safety standards. They thought it better to just cut off a whole user group. 8O

[filmbuff]

Please avoid shooting this Horse Skeleton...

Its all in good fun and there's no harm in fantasizing. Besides you don't want to read it look at another thread. 8)

[filmbuff]

• Digital sound recording or system (+TC) on a magnetic "balance" track/perf side.
(existing Digital DCC? technology available from Phillips)

IMO it would be cool to have a camera that can "print" a time code onto the film right at the gate. Then you could edit on computer to create a sound track and edit list for projection.

[reflex]

IMO it would be cool to have a camera that can "print" a time code onto the film right at the gate. Then you could edit on computer to create a sound track and edit list for projection.

Yes, I like that idea - keep the timecode optical so that it doesn't require mag striping. You would probably have to "hide" the timecode at the extreme top or bottom of the frame, because you'd need to have some way of reading it when you transfer to video (that could get tricky -- you'd probably need to develop an OCR program that could "read" the timecode from each frame for transfer to your editing software. The film could be projected using normal super 8 equipment, since the projection gate would hide the optical stamp.

Interesting, but technically challenging.

reflex

[SteveH]

I wonder whether the Ikonoskop guys have thought about producing a double super 8 version of their camera, I'm guessing this would require 'relatively' straightforward modifcation of the existing model?

There are bound to be situations where stowage issues are so critical that the ability to carry twice as much film stock in the same amount of space (as 16mm stock) would constitute a significant advantage.

Films documenting expeditions of one kind or another would the key example that springs to mind.

In such situations video would invariably be the first choice hence the use of film would be to provide a contrast to the main footage so - for once I guess - Super 8's distinctive appearance on-screen is entirely appropriate, no?

[csven]

The only problem is that you'd need some quite skilled industrial designers with a varied background.

[downix]

IMO it would be cool to have a camera that can "print" a time code onto the film right at the gate. Then you could edit on computer to create a sound track and edit list for projection.

Yes, I like that idea - keep the timecode optical so that it doesn't require mag striping. You would probably have to "hide" the timecode at the extreme top or bottom of the frame, because you'd need to have some way of reading it when you transfer to video (that could get tricky -- you'd probably need to develop an OCR program that could "read" the timecode from each frame for transfer to your editing software. The film could be projected using normal super 8 equipment, since the projection gate would hide the optical stamp.

Interesting, but technically challenging.

reflex

Better spot: Between the sprocket holes. No projector will ever show that area, and between the sprocket holes is unused film in every case.

[boohoo]

I know everybody gets pissed when I say it. However can't a camera be designed in the US and then manufactured in a country with low wages? China and russia come to mind becuase facilites already exist in these two places. Manufacturing cameras in these two places could make a new Super 8 camera a reality. Designing one is another story, but there are people with the expertise to do that. The only thing is that I have not heard of anyone in the last 10 years even begin to start such a project for super 8. Will it ever be done, becuse it surely can.

[downix]

Why not just go one step further, and license one of the Russian Super8 designs and just fit it with the bits we're discussing here?

[csven]

can't a camera be designed in the US and then manufactured in a country with low wages? ..... Will it ever be done, becuse it surely can.

biggest issue is capital. cutting steel is cheaper in China, but still expensive. ballpark guess: $50k for tooling alone. add in the rest and i can't see anyone taking a risk on this. so i doubt it'll be done that way. however, there is a sloooow trend toward custom products. new technologies may allow for a custom camera (just like we're seeing Print on Demand). we'll just have to wait and see.

[super8man]

I will only buy a new super 8 camera if wal mart sells it. Then I know its at the cheapest price possible.