I can sound stripe undeveloped film!

[Konton]

Often I have been asked if I can sound stripe undeveloped film. I never had a good answer because I have always been worried that either the sound stripe will melt or come off during processing, or some other issue might occur. Then it occured to me that wittner-kinotechnik.de used to sell sound striped K25. I wondered what they used to do this. I figured, if they used what I used to sound stripe film, then I could do the same things as long as I did it in the dark. As it turns out, what they do is exactly what I do.

Dear Mr. Miller,

the darkroom-soundstriping is too expensive (about 1 EUR each meter)
So the soundfilm would be much too expensive.

We used indeed AGFA F5 tape and the glue.
FIPRA has done this job for us in the past.


But special orders are possible:


KODAK Kodachrome 40 S8mm / 305m / 1000 ft.
Only for sale outside Europe.
S8mm, on core.
Film price does not include processing by Kodak.
Film length ± 1%.
Expiry Date 6/2006.
Order-Code 5305

1 Reel 305m / 1000 ft.
260,00 EUR each, export price without VAT

5 or more reels 305m / 1000 ft.
240,00 EUR each, export price without VAT

10 or more reels 305m / 1000 ft.
220,00 EUR each, export price without VAT



+ Soundstriping 305 EUR each 305m reel. No discount.
Price includes handling and shipping to and from Fipra to WKT.

Delivery time = ?
Depends on Fipra. I guess about 6-8 weeks after receipt of full payment.

If you need the 305m reels separated to 60m daylight reels this would be
- 4,00 EUR handling (Fipra)
- 12,16 EUR empty reel
- 1,99 EUR can
each 60m reel

So this is 90,75 EUR each 305m reel (which gives you 5 x 60m on Daylight
reels)

If you order 10 x 305m + sound striping + separating to 60m reels
this would create a price of about 123 EUR each 60m reel + shipping.


.... not even cheap, but real SOUNDfilm.


Mit freundlichen Grüßen

I. Joost
WKT / Beaulieu Deutschland
http://www.wittner-kinotechnik.de
http://www.posso-germany.com
http://www.beaulieu.de

Now I just need to practice sound striping in the dark. Any thoughts on the best way to do this? I’m thinking infrared goggle, but I can only use them with black and white film, right?

[downix]

If I supplied you with film stock (B&W is fine with me) how much would it cost?

[Konton]

I don't know. How much would you need? It's not like I started doing this already. I'm waiting till those supermag400's are ready.

[aj]

I doubt if posting somebody's personal message in detail in a public forum is really appropriate.

Still:

Now I just need to practice sound striping in the dark. Any thoughts on the best way to do this? I’m thinking infrared goggle, but I can only use them with black and white film, right?

I read somewhere that in labs sometimes deep red without
goggles is used for lighting the darkroom. Infrared
can be used with BW and color.

When striping short lengths (50ft) you could load the striper
with some old film or leader. Then splice the target film. That
way you would save the length of film in the machine.

Getting some choice of affordable material in S8 and on long rolls is possibly a problem too. In the USA you can get 1000ft K40 from germany.

Who can handle long rolls as user? Selling 50ft lengths gives a lot of hassle and who has refillable 50ft sound cartridges?

[escubria]

[quote="aj"]I doubt if posting somebody's personal message in detail in a public forum is really appropriate.[quote]

Well in fairness, I think this subject matter applies to us all and it seems like a pretty formal informational email from Wittner. It's not like Wittner is being critical of others in the industry.


I think Konton has the Supermag400 more in mind for sound striped film, not 50ft carts.

[aj]

If you get a price offer from somebody it may very well be that the offer is a one off and for others may be higher or lower.

I understood professionals are more into two-band systems. Amateurs like the one-band better. I thought it was mighty convenient after I exposed two sound cartridges just recently.

The large drives are professionally oriented. What was the production of the Beaulieu SD8/60 drive. Less then 200? The number of supermags currently in use is 1. If the eBay thing was delivered allready.

[downix]

I don't know. How much would you need? It's not like I started doing this already. I'm waiting till those supermag400's are ready.

How about 2 50-foot rolls at first? In the long term, I am planning on a feature, and sound recording has been a concern for me. I want to hear what the audio on-camera sounds like before I decide.

[escubria]

The Wittner price offer is standard, it's on the website. I think that anybody who is willing to stripe film should be encouraged, there will be more users of longer loads when the Supermag is ready and I don't think that anybody would ever expect demand to be in the thoudands anyway.

There were over 200 SD8 mags made.

[downix]

And what about the carts? Anybody have a source for them?

[aj]

The Wittner price offer is standard, it's on the website. I think that anybody who is willing to stripe film should be encouraged, there will be more users of longer loads when the Supermag is ready and I don't think that anybody would ever expect demand to be in the thoudands anyway.

There were over 200 SD8 mags made.

I am not against pre-striped sound film. I allready enquired at konton's

The dilemma is there are hardly any customers for long rolls. Which could be produced economically. But konton maybe does not have to stock them and it is not too bad.

There are more (not many) customers with a 50ft refillable sound cartridges for loads. However these are a hassle to produce. I think/expect.

[Konton]

Well first off this is an e-mail to me. So what I do with my own e-mails I think is up to me. Secondly nothing in the e-mail was confidential so I didn't think there was an issue with me posting it.

As for leader, I'd still have to splice the leader onto the film. So somewhere in the process the film would get exposed to one degree or another. I had a talk with Martin today who told me that infarared goggles should work for my needs.

Lastly, It just a waste to only put 100' of film in the sound striper. I'd rather have at least 1000' to sound stripe all at once and then cut it down as people order it. I just wish I had me some reloadable sound carts to work with.

Anyone got some sound carts to sell me?

[mattias]

Well first off this is an e-mail to me. So what I do with my own e-mails I think is up to me.

of course, but you'd also have to face the reaction of those you might piss off. i don't think anyone's suggesting you're not allowed by law to publish an email, but it's certainly an ethical dilemma. not in this case though, in my opinion, i wish to add. just commenting on the broader issue.

/matt

[aj]

For practical reasons it is indeed mostly a breach of ethics. Whose checking etc. 8)

Copyright wise (=law) the receiver of a letter (or photo or film and else) does not have publishing rights. Having the written thing, negative or projection original does not grant copyright. It remains with the creator or who bought it off him/her. :idea:

Maybe if Kodak could leave rights to the cartridge design to the public. Somebody could have produced somewhere a number of 1000 of cartridges and sell them to the needing. Is this the reason or is just the cost of the moulds prohibitive?

[mattias]

Copyright wise (=law) the receiver of a letter (or photo or film and else) does not have publishing rights.

yes they do. there are certain criteria that have to be met for the author to be able to claim copyright. just writing something isn't enough.

/matt

[aj]

Copyright is automatic.

Just creating a thing (of art) creates the copyright for the creator.
You do not have to register or put a copyright-notice on it.
It is worldwide like that.

It has been discussed here before.

Sorry I do not have my favourites list at hand on this computer.
There are many site who explain it all properly. I'll post some links after thursday 30th

Patents are granted after registration. But these serve other purposes.