Bolex P1

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Gobo
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Re: Manual

Post by Gobo »

regular8mm wrote:
You can get a factory repair manual from this guy/gal. If you can fix these things you will have a small business.
Now there's an idea....I've checked his stock and he has limited R8 but it's a start.

Thanks again

Gobo
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studiocarter
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lookie

Post by studiocarter »

Look over on the left to the super 8 newsgroup. Martin Baumgarten has posted detaled instructions on exactly how to do the job.

copied and reposted below:Subject: Re: 8mm Bolex repair help
From: super8mm@aol.com (Super8mm)
Newsgroups: alt.movies.cinematography.super8
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Date: Dec 27 2002 21:24:45
User-Agent: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-fw)

In article <auf2qb$5i1$1@oslo-nntp.eunet.no>, mcarter4121@home.com (Michael)
writes:

>I am in the same boat with two of the B8 cameras that run rough and
>uneven. How can we get these cameras to run smoothly again?
>
>
>
----> LUBRICATION of the BOLEX B-8, C8, & D8L type cameras (without complete
disassembly)<--------- by MWB (c) 2002

---> The older small spring wound BOLEX cameras are tiny marvels of Swiss
craftsmanship and precision. They can make sharp steady movies as long as they
run smoothly. Oftentimes, as they are now well past 35 years old.....they
need relubrication for continued use; especially if they have been sitting
around for years.

--> Carefully removal of the center molded plastic unit which contains the door
locking shaft and film pressure plate open/close lever. This is mounted via a
single machine screw. Be extra careful in removing this unit and pay
particular attention to the top spring loaded film feed roller. This roller's
lower pin rests in a drilled hole in the film chamber chassis and you must make
sure upon reinstallation that it goes back in. Upon removal hold this roller
with your finger so that the tiny spring doesn't go flying off. Once removed,
set it aside safely somewhere.

---> Now, using sewing machine oil, place 2-3 drops on the worm gear shaft
which is now visible. (NOT WD-40 or anything similar since this type of spray
oil is too light...it will free up the mechanism if seized....however it's
lubrication properties will wear down rapidly, thus the need for a thicker
lubricant...but yet fine enough to penetrate the gearing and shafts and provide
proper lubrication) -- Having removed also the film pressure plate assembly
(via sliding it down, aka to the left of the film gate and lifting it outward),
place a drop of oil on the film claw eccentric mechanism, and also on visible
pivot points and shaft pins which are fitted into drilled chassis holes from
below.

---> Wind the camera fully, and run it at 16fps, ensuring that the oil works
itself into the moving parts. If after a full wind, it still doesn't seem to
run smooth, drop some more oil drops on the main moving parts, making sure to
get some on all visible pivot points, shaft ends, and gear parts. Wind the
camera fully again and then repeat winding and allowing it to run thru fully
for another three times. By this time, the oil should've worked itself into
the main moving parts and allowed it to free up to run smoothly. On the B8LA
and D8LA models which have the external film rewind shaft; open the shaft cover
and place a drop or two of oil on it while laying the camera on its side.
Then run the camera on its side to work the oil in. This shaft directly
connects to the main spring gearing dust getting in over the years, dry
lubricant and/or lack of it, will affect the running here also. Make sure you
do NOT overlubricate the camera, since excess oil could find its way into the
shutter area and thus end up splashing some onto the film gate and film itself.


---> Once the camera comes back to life and runs smoothly, adjust the running
speed from 8fps or 12fps up to 24fps and back down again to allow lubrication
to fully work itself thru all moving parts. Do not exceed 24fps, since it
could damage the speed governor. If the camera is extremely sluggish, you can
exceed 24fps, since it most likely isn't running anywhere near that rate and is
barely moving. By doing so, it will allow the camera to run faster, hopefully
to work the lubrication in and loosen the mechanism up. Once the camera
appears to increase in speed at the higher running speed selections, to what
begins to seem normal.....stop operating it at anything faster than 24fps.
For example...if it barely runs at 16fps, 18fps or 24fps.....adjust the speed
upward to 32fps or 48fps if necessary...just to get the mechanism moving. Once
she speeds up...back the running speed back down to 'normal' again so as not to
damage the running speed governor. On very sluggish B8LA and D8LA models, you
can also use the film rewind crank in the external shaft opening to help coax
the mechanism into forward movement. Be careful here though, as you don't want
to damage the tiny crank, which are hard to locate now-a-days.

---> If by this point the camera is back to normal working condition, great.
Now clean up any excess oil in the film gate area, and wipe the film gate and
film guide rollers with alcohol to remove any oil traces. Then wipe it down
with some movie film cleaner with lubricant.....or if none available, use some
pure silicone spray (spraying it onto a clean white cotten flannel cloth, allow
propellant to evaporate before wiping). Wipe the film gate and channels and
film pressure plate. Reinstall the film pressure plate. Reinstall the center
plastic moulded unit and carefully place the upper roller pin into its
appropriate drilled chassis hole. Once in place, reinsert the machine screw
with its accompanying washer and snuggly hand tighten. Do not overtighten as
you can crack the casing of the unit if you do. The camera should run nicely
now. Use some scrap film to test its operation under film load.

---> If the camera still does not come back to life after all this....then it
most likely will require complete disassembly, full cleaning of all parts and
proper lubrication and reassembly. This is too involved and delicate a
procedure for the average hobbyist and is best left to a skilled camera repair
technician. Tampering with the camera beyond this point can cause a lack of
frameline accuracy, and film claw to shutter synchronization and other
potential running problems. While a fine mechanical mechanism, the BOLEX
cameras are also sufficiently complex in their construction, most especially
the later ones with TTL metering and variable shutter assemblies.

---> Lastly, if your BOLEX is running fine or seems to run fine, but the film
jitters upon projection......the likely culprit is the slip clutch on the take
up shaft. This is supposed to slip relative to the rate of film takeup
diameter and the rate to which film is fed to it, and is often overlooked as a
problem area on these aging cameras. The design is simple in that the shaft
itself uses a material to allow the mechanism to grip and rotate the shaft, but
slip as needed relative to takeup. Leather was used on many....and if dried
out with age.....the shaft can't slip...and thus tugs at the film causing it to
jitter and slip in the gate, usually during the moment just after exposure
where the film claw retracts and the frame is supposed to be stationary waiting
for the shutter to open for exposure, and/or during exposure. A very small
(tiny) drop of oil on this shaft material, under the shaft will usually remedy
this problem. Once lubricated, install the take up shaft again, and check
with a takeup spool and some scrap film.

---> Do NOT overlubricate, as it will not allow enough takeup grip and the film
will either not take up properly, and will be too loose on the takeup spool, or
worse....won't take up at all! If this happens.....just clean off the shaft
spindle underneath, having removed the takeup shaft.....and start over again.
If you go too far...it will require more disassembly, requiring removal of the
chassis cover plate so you can have full access to the clutch & spindle unit.
In some cases, this is what you'll have to do anyhow......just be careful.
First remove the center moulded plastic unit and carefully set it aside.
Then, remove the film pressure plate. Then remove the chassis plate screws and
tape them to a sheet of paper where you have drawn an outline of the camera so
you know where to return them to. Carefully lift out the chassis cover plate
making sure not to scratch the highly polished film guide and gate area. The
film takeup mechanism will now be readily visible and you can clean up and
lubricate it as necessary.

---> Upon completion, test it BEFORE you reassemble everything, with a takeup
spool and and some scrap film. What you want to do is avoid having to take
it all apart again. If any of this is beyond your ability, have a competant
repair technician do it for you. You should be able to have a local camera
repair shop tackle it for you.....even if they don't do movie cameras....show
them these instructions and the technician will understand what needs to be
done. They will bill you appropriately.....and beware, many shops now charge
in the range of $75 to $125 per hour! Some smaller shops in various parts of
the USA still charge some lower rates...but only you can assess if the costs
are worth the upkeep of your camera to you.

Best wishes and good luck with your BOLEX 8mm cameras!
Martin W. Baumgarten
Gobo
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Post by Gobo »

I wish I had read these before I attempted to do it! :) LOL

I went the full hog and took the chassis cover plate and everything off and basically started from the internals up. I used WD40 as a cleaning agent on the tip of several cotton buds/cue tips ONLY , making sure that I didn't put any excess in there for lubrication purposes, only for cleaning. I had heard that it wasn't suitable so I just used it for tidying up. I shall aquire some sewing machine oil to lube in future.

I first took apart the wind up crank on the external and cleaned the three paw springs and handle mechanism, reassembled and continued to the internal housing. With the film pressure plate and take-up mech off, I removed the chassis (had fun with the ft counter spindle and it's removal) and found the govenor mechanism and flywheel to be a little clogged and in need of cleaning. I wiped everything down, paying special attention to the running gear and it's contact points and reassembled (very slowly!)

And it runs great! I haven't tried any film in it yet but at 16/18fps it is so smooth sounding for at least 30 seconds, which is a little under it's original spec, that I am certain I have remedied the problem as far as the running issue goes. As for whether I have assembled it correctly to continue filming with it we'll see but I'm sure that I haven't damaged anything in the process.

Thank you Marc and Reg8 for ALL of your advice. I was nervous at first, having visions of losing springs in between floorboards et al but actually it was very theraputic and the smile on my face when that sucker ran along at a constant speed was well worth the two+ hours!

Thanks guys

Gobo
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studiocarter
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Post by studiocarter »

Man, do I wish you lived next door.
Gobo
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Post by Gobo »

Reg8, well you never know.........yesterday's events have enthused me to buy some relatively cheap Bolex's and see what I can do to them.

Cleaning is one thing, replacing worn and broken parts is another! Unless one has an arsenal of broken camera's at their helm, then parts for these things are going to be tricky! :)

Do you have camera's that need cleaning?

Gobo
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Post by studiocarter »

Yes, I think i have 2 B8 cameras that hardly run. I also have a P1or2 that runs great. The B8s are nice and small with the Switar primes.
Gobo
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Post by Gobo »

What is a "Switar primes"?

Sorry
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studiocarter
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Switar

Post by studiocarter »

Switar is THE lens to use with a B8 camera. It is a 'D' mount, much smaller than a 'C' mount as used on 16mm cameras, D is used on Regular 8mm cameras. Prime means that it is NOT a zoom lens like on the P1-2 cameras. Nor are they reflex. The Switar lenses are black with little red dots that appear to show the depth of field. Lytar lens is silver without the dots.
I had a good look over my two B8 cameras. One I will keep; the other needs more work than I can give it. Both cameras were lubricated according to Martin's instructions. The one I want to get rid of makes some noise when it is wound unlike the other which is smooth and quiet. When the 'bad' one, the one which is 'ill', plays, it vibrates in certain positions. It runs all the way down but makes a lot of noise, so I assume it needs complete disassembly and I am not up to that.
It comes in a Bolex paillard box along with a Yvar 1:2.8 f=36mm black lens with the red dots. The aperture turns and dots appear on the lens, but the focus is locked tight at almost 5 feet. It has a front lens cap and no rear one. I have another that works properly so this one goes, too, along with the camera.
What I need is a 25mm lens or a 1" lens. I have the 36 and the 13mm and a 1/2". I'll sell the 1/2" Lytar and keep the 13mm Switar and the 36mm Yvar.
So, what I have is a B8 Bolex Regular 8mm camera that has a 2 lens turret. One lens is included, the 36mm Yvar with the frozen focus. The camera has no variable shutter (the one I keep does have it). Serial number is 841826. Nor does it have a diopter for the viewfinder. Just a simple lens is all it has but it works as is. The camera has a speed chart where the variable shutter goes on the other camera. Listed are FPS speeds from 8 to 64 and the shutter speed that results from the different settings.
I bought the camera even though it made noise because at the time I was teaching animation. This camera has single frame animation that works. It does not need to run smoothly at 16fps to do animation. And the box is a nice collector item. So is the lens. They could go on display.
They could also be disassembled and fixed up if one were that competent or wished to invest enough to have it done. Counting both, I must have over $100 in getting one good camera from two to look over and clean up. I bought them for about $50 each as they are much sought after collectors items.
They are really neat filmmakers cameras when they are made to work properly.
Now to scour my collection for a 25mm 'D' mount lens and I'll have the complete set.
I'll trade the 1/2" Lytar silver 'D' mount lens for a 25mm lens.

Later, let me know if you want the B8 to fix up.

Michael

PS, as per instructions by Martin, I took the leather tube off the bottom take up spindle; Man, was it difficult to get off. The leather is made to slide on that shaft but was stuck fast. I have a Keystone Movie Projector Oil bottle that has a metal shaft to apply oil with. That was inserted into the leather tube and lubricated it careful not to get any on the outside. It took several times to soak enough in to get the thing to turn easily. I didn't do the one on the 'ill' camera.
I now am pretty adept at taking off just those outer parts and putting them back on. The spring on the top feed spool had me going for a bit, but I wound it one tighter and learned to take both parts off without it coming off. It goes into it's own little hole and the larger part has two pins to go over to be reinstalled correctly, tricky business.
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Post by Billbot »

I've bought about 6 b8's off ebay, and never paid more than $12. some I got for $9. Most run well, some run rough, but I also have a bunch of cool switar and yvar lenses with filters now.
.B.I.L.L.B.O.T.
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Post by Gobo »

There are several B8's on ebay right now, some working, some not so good. I am going to keep an eye on them (whatever that means) and possibly purchase them so that I may work on them and see if I can repair any.

I'm taking a liking to the idea of casually repairing these and being able to help anyone in the process of repairing theirs. It was very satisfying making my P1 breathe life again. After all, if looked after, there is no reason why they shouldn't last forever!

Maybe I should put a call out to anyone with broken camera's and see if they would be prepared to donate them for repair work. I could pay postage for them in return for me working on them. Does this seem reasonable or too hopeful?
"are you happy now? Is your British ass happy now?" - Go
studiocarter
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Post by studiocarter »

Let me know what they go for as I have $50 dumped into the one I have. I'll most likely sell it outright.
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Post by Gobo »

"are you happy now? Is your British ass happy now?" - Go
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Post by Split8mm »

Gobo wrote:Thank you Marc and Reg8 for ALL of your advice. I was nervous at first, having visions of losing springs in between floorboards et al but actually it was very theraputic and the smile on my face when that sucker ran along at a constant speed was well worth the two+ hours!
Like most things in life, not that hard once you actually try it. :D Congratulations on getting it running! I can tell by your enthusiasm that you feel as good as I do when you are able to bring an old Bolex back from the dead.
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Post by Gobo »

It certainly does! :)

Now I have this notion about buying dying camera's and breathing life back into them! 8O
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Post by Split8mm »

Gobo wrote:Now I have this notion about buying dying camera's and breathing life back into them! 8O
That's what I do as a hobby. But as a business, it seems like a loosing proposition. You can do your own math, but by my calculations I'm better off keeping my day job. :lol:
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