jittering K40 AGAIN

[peterson]

Hi there,
since I am using my cameras (nizo 801, beaulieu4008zm) all my scenes were "rock steady" (without any noticable jitter)..but yesterday I have recieved my last K40 cart from switzerland and oops...the jitter is really strong . Yes It was the 7,2005 expiration date serie, that I was reading here about a month ago...I have just hoped that this wonť affect my footage, but it did..Its very strong during timelapse scenes and without a jitter when shot slomo (54fps) - I can logical explain that to myself - the slower the film transport, the bigger the danger!!! I must say that again, that all my other timelapses were steady - but not from this cart!!!
I feel like I can´t rely on my cameras and even the next 7, 2005 cartridges in my fridge without buying the frame master pressure plate!!!
It seems kind of expensive piece of metal, but could be usefull for sure!!

I am really disapointed with this problem - have lost few incredible time exposure scenes...could I fix it somehow (remove the "flickered" frames after telecine or something..anyway I think I will try!!

Thanx 8mm.filmshooting for being the place to complain and learn!!!
where do we live guys...in the time of constant increasing price level of K40, the quality goes down????I cant get it.. :evil:

[matt5791]

Jitter I have experienced in the past I have put down to the camera, even though not all cartridges displayed the problem.

If you really suspect the cartridge, you need to phone up Kodak who will normally replace your film and also supply you additional free film.

Matt

[sophocle]

Ok --

This really freaks me out.

I am somewhat new to super 8 (about 150 carts or so) but I have tried all
kinds of stock, pro8mm and all, and never had a jitter problem.

I am not sure though that I would have the patience for even a single ruined scene.

When I considered using 8 instead of 16 jitter did not figure in my evaluation. If this is as revalent I just might drop 8 altogether.

[Alex]

If you are doing time lapse, use more than one camera. If you are doing scenes and you have more than a casual crew, you should do 16mm.

If you are alone and shooting Super-8 and it's in real time, then listen to the camera and the cartridge, if the cartridge is "jittering", you probably would hear the cartridge laboring.

And I think it's a good idea to advance the film when you first get it. Pull it top to bottom for a few inches, then "spool" it up by advancing the spindle in the clockwise direction. If it moves easily, you should have a good cartridge.

Also, if the film is refrigerated, I think it needs 1/2 hour outside of the fridge before being used to get back to room temperature.

[cineandy]

Hi, i had 4 k40s back about 6 weeks ago with the jitters, trouble is i was unsure of the batch number, though it had an exp date of 2005. I now shoot about 1-2 feet of the box with the batch number on after i load the cartridge, that way if it suffers the jitters i know the batch number. I have just received 8 rolls back from processing, batch no. 373 718361 exp 7/2005, they were perfect, no jitters at all. Also batch 373 1784787 exp 10/2005 were ok, no jitters.

[thebrowniecameraguy]

Um, I wonder if Kodachrome II shots in Super 8 had jittery problems.

Since that and K40 are and were the only two films for a while, I would like to see how the carts design is different in anyway.

I have some KII carts that I experiment with developing wise, but I havent been able to tell through projection if the picture is unsteady. It seems like I have always had great registration with my Eumig 128 XL camera. Its the only camera I shoot Super 8mm with.

If those of you out here that shot KII in super 8mm, comment. Becuase If the jittery problem existed from 1965 to the invent of K40, there is more likely a problem with the Kodak cartridge.

But, since KII is gone, and the problem is persisting with K40 and other filmstocks in the Kodak cartridge, is it really accurate to say it is the cartridge and not the camera. I dont know, but those of you who are experienced seemed to be at a bit of an impass, some say camera some say cartridge.

Honestly, how could you really tell with a study of old and new carts, and different cameras. Is that it?


Cheers,
Jordan

[MovieStuff]

Um, I wonder if Kodachrome II shots in Super 8 had jittery problems

Funny you should ask that. We just telecined several hundred feet of some customer's film that was shot on KII back in the early 70s and, I gotta say, it was 1000% rock solid. I mean, you would have thought it was pin registered. The cool thing was that the customer wanted the film transferred with the sprocket holes showing a bit to see all the way out to the edges. For fun I put a piece of tape on the monitor during playback (to mark the frame line) and it absolutely could not have been any steadier if it had been shot pin-registered, I swear. The frame line thickness was consistant from beginning to end and was in a fixed position relative to the sprocket holes. It was beautiful. Nothing like the current carts, it would seem, and we've transferred both. I asked the customer what he shot with and he said it was a Sears super 8 camera. Sharp as a tack. Really amazing and kind of sad.....

Roger
http://www.moviestuff.tv

[escubria]

So are the new carts that shoddily made that the basic standards of old really have gone?

How could Kodak be making the carts any different now to how they were made in the 70s?

Are they just re-using bad carts?

Calling John Pytlak!

[Cutty201]

I do not have too much to add (unfortunately) but in response to peterson I MAY have some sort of solution for you . VIRTUALDUB! After it's telecine I can get rid of the flicker for you 100% and have a method that might be able to fix up some of the jitter (hopefully).

If you download VirtualDub (at http://www.virtualdub.org), and then get the telecine antiflicker filter here:
http://neuron2.net/deflick11.zip
[demo video]http://neuron2.net/flicker.zip

after it's all nice and deflickered you can try using "DeShaker" from http://biphome.spray.se/gunnart/video/ it's VERY VERY CPU Intensive but it can yield some pretty cool results hope this helps

[JCook]

Since the topic here is jitter and K40 carts are these symptoms (fluctuating focus in the middle of the frame within the last 10-15 seconds of a reel) possibly due to jitter?

Whatever the cause do you feel a pressure plate may help?

Thanks in advance,

John

[peterson]

thank you guys for debating on this topic!!
..I dont really think the jitter was caused by the camera. I haven´t had any problem with it for a year or something..it wasnt dropped, the batteries were fresh... I am sure it was the cartridge 373 718364 exp.7,2005...the camera sounds same when running but I must say I have heard some strange sound of a film transport during first shots...the laboring cartridge...Waiting for another cart from this batch to see back from suisse..
Then I am gonna look for a pressure plate!! Could it be usefull??
Really need some reference here, becouse it´s an expensive article...I could by a new nizo for that price If i am lucky..

[MovieMaker]

Then I am gonna look for a pressure plate!! Could it be usefull??
Really need some reference here, becouse it´s an expensive article...I could by a new nizo for that price If i am lucky..

The price for the PP has recently been lowered from Euro 168.50,- to Euro 127.99,- due to a new manufacturing process.

I won´t comment any further if it´s a MUST to get because that´ll sound that I do some advertising for it

I use it with every cart I shoot and never had any jitter problems since the new carts were manufactured. Especially slow-motion is perfect but also the edge sharpness has been improved (in my opinion) - and I´m using only high-end cam´s.

I see it for myself as some sort of insurance to get even better results under normal conditions... if the cartrídge is faulty then it won´t help either.

MovieMaker

[cinelys]

First , sorry for my bad english .

I have been shooting super8 from 1973 to 1993 wihthout any jitter trouble
(Cameras : Bauer C4 and Nizo Integral 5 and something like 150 carts)

From 1993 to 2003 I shot only video VHS, 8mm and DV.

Last year , desapointed by video ,I came back to super8 with great pleasure .
Since this "come-back" I shot firstly about 35 carts of K40 ( Cameras Beaulieu 6008S
and Nizo S560). I had about 10 % features with jitter trouble .

Then , I bought the famous Pressure Plate , and shot about 10 carts with it : all was good .

[matt5791]

So are the new carts that shoddily made that the basic standards of old really have gone?

How could Kodak be making the carts any different now to how they were made in the 70s?

Are they just re-using bad carts?

No. The cameras are now 30 years old and haven't been serviced ever (or properly). No other changes.

Matt.

[peterson]

..it is nice to hear that...
that´s simillar to my story, but I got bored by a 3ccd DV a now I love to "film" Super 8...but I am "only" 26..I really love the look of the footage and the whole proces!!
.. I think I must by the Frame master!! Yes..the !hollywood shop has got great advertising tactics..They could expect my order really soon..