Question: Synch Sound for Canon 1014XL-S

[Nick]

What is the best way to get double system sound for the Canon S8 1014XL-S? Crystal synch or with a digital to pilotone converter? Which method would be less expensive taking resolving the sound into consideration.

Thanks,
Nick

[S8 Booster]

I think the deciding factor will be whether you are planning for transfer to video or project your films and what sort of project you will work on.

X-tal sync mod of your camera will normally be very expensive so you should examine the trigger sync pulse recording option in the first place. From there there are several options and ways to go depending on if you project or digitize your films.

R

[Nick]

Hi R,

I'd like to do some very short films and music videos. I would transfer the film to video and edit on a computer (Mac + Final Cut Pro). I'd appreciate any further advice you could provide.

Thanks,
Nick

[S8 Booster]

Returning with more info later but here is one alternative:

http://www.super8mm.org/sound.html

R

[S8 Booster]

Hi R,

I'd like to do some very short films and music videos. I would transfer the film to video and edit on a computer (Mac + Final Cut Pro). I'd appreciate any further advice you could provide.

Thanks,
Nick

I guess you will have a playback soundtrack available for the music video?
If yes this will be the reference for the image editing.

Since your camera will not be totally sync for an unlimited time with I suggest that you add the images to match the soundtrack. Film clips can normally be stretched or shortened in any NLE system (I believe - I use Adobe Premier) so the clip lengths are flexible. The master soundtrack must remain untouched.

Next for the music video is the question if you really need to use sync sound recording at all with the camera. If your images are recognizeable you can paste, move and stretch/shorten and fine tune them (jigsaw puzzle) to make them match/sync to the soundtrack. Takes some time but saves you the effort of rigging a sync recording system.

Wide angle master shots may not be perfectly sync at all.
Can be faked or roughly approximated if there is no obvious sync related motion details visible.

Nice thing about digitized film material in NLE systems is the ability to trial and error until it is perfect.

I do not know the FCP but it should be a very potent tool for your jobs.


When it comes to syncing sound with teh camera I have made system useing and MD for recording. You will find some details about this here:

http://www.8mm.filmshooting.com/scripts ... c&start=15

Pedro visiting this site regulary can supply all the hardware/wires you need to get a tone generator etc to interconnect your cam with the recording source "printing" a sync pluse on one of the sound channels. In NLE editing it is basically ony needed to dcide start and end of each take, not true sync.

However, there are possible to interconnect for example a projector to sync with the pulse lcoking it on to the sound playback system.

I think the music video syncing/editing issue has been discussed on this board before so it might be useful to look intio the older posts as well.

R

[Nick]

Thanks R,

I appreciate the advice. I will check out Pedro's solutions and read through the forum.

Cheers,
Nick

[S8 Booster]

Just adding a few links. A video camera can be good for sound sync recording by the way. Easy to mate the clips vs sound.

http://www.8mm.filmshooting.com/scripts ... .php?t=703
http://jl-site.com/Super8/1kHz_pulse_synch.html
http://www.omniprints.com/super8/
http://lavender.fortunecity.com/lavende ... csync.html
http://www.cwo.com/~ashlin/ttl/sound.htm
http://filmsound.studienet.org/
http://www.24fps.com/Article/Alpha/Digi ... ormats.htm
http://www.rivalquest.com/super8/soundrecording.html
http://www.bobgandy.com/gandyrecording.htm
http://www.knowledgehound.com/topics/film.htm
http://www.newenglandfilm.com/news/arch ... super8.htm
http://users.aol.com/fmgp/faq.htm
http://www.mango-a-gogo.com/inmyimage/imaglink.htm
http://www.mango-a-gogo.com/inmyimage/i ... htm#martin

R

[Lucas Lightfeat]

So long as your clips aren't more than 20 seconds each (highly unlikely) then just shoot it! Crystal Sync is cool, but your Canon is possibly THEE most steady speed camera without a crystal sync. People have tested them to fluctuate about a frame per minute. Connect a multimeter to the flash socket on the camera and see if it produce 24.00 htz You might be quite surprised. Check out old posts here by searching Crystal Sync - all the info is here and this is the best site to find it...

Good luck.

Lucas

[Pedro]

Only an input, how it can be very easy to make a music video with real film:

1. you select your music and make a kind of story board for the film, including the timing of the music.

2. to find the exact timing for the scenes you want to shoot and edit:
record the music to a perforated tape (perfo tape), using an open reel tape deck with opto coupler reading head and digital counter. Now you can play back the music and stop it at any time. This way it is easy to find out, how many frames are neccessary to cover a certain phrase of the music. This way Disney did all the great sync animations: first recording/analyzing the audio, then creating the animations following the audio.
(Perfo tapes are available in two types: the older ones with round holes (system Pötter) only second hand, the actual ones with rectangular holes at Bavaria Film Munich or at Gebuhr Sync Systems Nürnberg.)

3. shoot your scenes according to your story board and according to the neccessary scene lengths. Shoot some more frames per scene in order to be able to edit.

4. mounting the film: splice all scenes together in the correct order and with the correct number of frames as you had counted with your perfo tape. You need a viewer with a single frame counter unit or a digital frame counter (same as above)

5. Play the film and the perfo tape in parallel, using a digital synchronizing system (or simply the Elmo GS1200MO, using the ESS input). Your film will match perfectly and frame accurate to your sound! During playback, you can transfer the sound to magnetic stripe.

It is very much fun to make animations and music synced films in this handcraft style of production. The results are very perfect, as all keeps frame accurate and the possibilities are unlimited.

Pedro

[jukkasil]

So long as your clips aren't more than 20 seconds each (highly unlikely) then just shoot it! Crystal Sync is cool, but your Canon is possibly THEE most steady speed camera without a crystal sync. People have tested them to fluctuate about a frame per minute. Connect a multimeter to the flash socket on the camera and see if it produce 24.00 htz You might be quite surprised. Check out old posts here by searching Crystal Sync - all the info is here and this is the best site to find it...

I saw one demo-film at Finnish 8 mm meeting (7.9.2002).

That guy has shot the whole K40 roll and at the same time recorded the sound with dat-recorded. The camera was Canon 1014 XL-S without crystal sync. He had striped super 8 roll and managed to get that sound track keeping it sync the whole time (2,4 minutes)!