double super8, the cheaper alternative & best one for wi

[francis]

yes, i thought id make another posting about my double super8 yahoogroup that caters to this exquisite format. i thought id get the newcomers that didnt see the posting before. please put a message in here with your email if you want to be added to the group. you can learn all about double super8 and why its the superior format from all of the postings. cheers

[Actor]

I agree that DS8 is a superior format but it looks like when the K-25 runs out it's going to be an all B&W format. Every time a Canon DS8 pops up on eBay I'm tempted to bid but being limited to B&W Fomapan stops me.

[super8man]

My sentiments too. That thought was what precisely made me break out the Canon Scoopic 16MS and give it a go. For the amount of trouble, 16 just made more sense for me.

[monobath]

I'm interested in the format, francis, and I'd like to join your Yahoo group. I PM'd you my email address.

[LastQuark]

...cheaper alternative...

I looked at this about a month ago, I thought we have concluded it cannot be any cheaper than super 8mm.

Can you beat super 8mm with a K40 at $13.54/50 ft including processing?

For students, super 8mm is only $10.83/cart including processing.

 

 

[jean]

paul cotto was buidling a machine to perf any film to ds8, I don't know what the current status of his project is - but in the end, any film can be perforated to ds8, even fuji negative films or whatever you fancy.

If you haven't done yet, I recommend to get in contact with paul, just do a search for him here.

I'm looking forward to experiment with single8, since I have a nice camera ready and with the refilling of the carts, it could be easier for me. I do need a faster film than kodachrome, and the 200ISO fuji reversal seems to be a solution.

[marc]

Double Regular 8 has a greater chance of survival being that it's sprocket holes are much more common ( and therefore standard) than super 8 sprocket holes. The same sprocket holes are used on 16mm. And since 16 mm is a more widely accepted format than super 8 it is much more common and used more extensively. For the above mentioned reasons, double regular 8 has a greater chance of survival than double super 8. And that will make DR8 a cheaper alternative than DS8.

[francis]

ok, just to clear some stuff up. im not even looking at the available black and white stock nor am i able to work on the k40. to get ds8 going again itll have to be foe pro and semi pros who wish to use negative stock.

i can get the stock providing i do a minimum order. it is not recut film, it is film directly from kodak that they have perfed properly. the stock is available as long as the minimum batch order is made. im looking to get people in on splitting the batch.

basicaly, if you want ds8 stock, its available, and its no easier to get double regular 8 becasue of its perfs. besides, why pay for an inferior image? especially since the cost is the same...so anyway, if you want ds8, you can get it. cheers

and let me know if you want to get on the ds8 group

[kentbulza]

...cheaper alternative...

I looked at this about a month ago, I thought we have concluded it cannot be any cheaper than super 8mm.

Can you beat super 8mm with a K40 at $13.54/50 ft including processing?

For students, super 8mm is only $10.83/cart including processing.

K25 for DS8 is $52 for 200 feet from John Schwind. That's $13.00 per 50 feet.

As I've said in the past, I like the talk about negative DS8 as a 2nd choice to reversal, but I have serious doubts as to whether it'll ever materialize. I have seen very few complete a successful custom cine order with krazy Kodak. If you called them and said you'd like to place a million dollar order for any old film, they might say, "sorry, we don't stock that one anymore." But believe me Francis, I wish you all the luck in the world.

As far as negative being more professional than reversal, this is based upon the assumption that prints can be made from negative and they can't be made from reversal. While this is technically not true, it's bascially true. But it's further based upon the assumption that prints can be made from Super 8 at all. Since they cannot practically be made both because there are no print stocks generally available and only one or two labs in the entire world make Super 8 prints with residual stocks, the only use for Super 8 is either home projection or direct-to-telecine. Since direct-to-telecine can be from either the reversal original or negative original, it basically comes down to an artistic preference for contrast or not. Therefore my opinion is that negative Super 8 is neither more or less professional than reversal.

Having said that, I am anxious for Vision2 200T in DS8 because it brings t-Grain 200 ASA to me in longer, steadier rolls. Since my uses are direct projection, I cannot use this stock as much as reversal, but I'll settle for it on my dabs into direct-to-telecine.

[francis]

when i said more pro i meant for telecine work although the higher speed and latitude of the neg gives overal better properties for blowing up if one chose to.

the order im trying to arrange in ds8 is the vision2 200t but like i said, i cant get the 50 rolls all on my lonesome and i need people to purchase bits of the batch. im hitting kodak up on several sides. if they fuck up the order and dont do it then thats a bridge to cross when we come to it. i dont want to winge bout it before hand, especially since not only are my contacts very positive, its also a no brainer for them to grab unperfed 16mm film and to s8 double perf it. thats a hell of a lot easier than making a new stock or doing something majorly different.

as for the faster neg, id like to see a blowup done with it becasue i think it would easily rival the digital camcorder approach to blowup filmmaking. especially due to its speed and the low price of some of the amazing optics that could be used on the cameras. and there are a number of companys in the world who can blowup super8 if somebody wanted to, it just takes one good example to get others onboard.

[marc]

Since DR8 was designed around the same specs as 16mm and the R8 cameras are more robust, I think that it has a greater chance of survival.

[Freya]

when i said more pro i meant for telecine work although the higher speed and latitude of the neg gives overal better properties for blowing up if one chose to.

The higher speed will surely make the film more grainy for a blow up??, which is fine if that is what you are after but...

as for the faster neg, id like to see a blowup done with it becasue i think it would easily rival the digital camcorder approach to blowup filmmaking. especially due to its speed and the low price of some of the amazing optics that could be used on the cameras. and there are a number of companys in the world who can blowup super8 if somebody wanted to, it just takes one good example to get others onboard.

The labs I've come across that do S8 to 35mm blow-up always seem keen to discourage people from shooting on negative stocks, even 50D. The reason is that the quality will be much, much, much lower because an optical blow up from S8 negative requires an interpositive (also much more expensive!) which is yet another big generation loss over shooting on reversal such as K40. Obviously a 200 speed film will be even grainier still too.

However it's possible that good results could be had from a DI, especially if it was scanned on a spirit or something to hi-def. I've not heard of anyone trying that with S8 but it might give good results, who knows!

love

Freya

[lowerhaight]

...cheaper alternative...

I looked at this about a month ago, I thought we have concluded it cannot be any cheaper than super 8mm.

Can you beat super 8mm with a K40 at $13.54/50 ft including processing?

For students, super 8mm is only $10.83/cart including processing.

 

 

quick question where can I purchace the film at that price

Regards

Craig

[monobath]

This topic is mainly about DS8 film, which is double super 8. If you are wanting to know where to buy K40 Super 8 carts with processing, see the recent thread Very new to this.

The info you're looking for, CAT number of the film and the 1-800 Kodak order line, is within the first two pages.

[escubria]

[/quote]As far as negative being more professional than reversal, this is based upon the assumption that prints can be made from negative and they can't be made from reversal. While this is technically not true, it's bascially true. But it's further based upon the assumption that prints can be made from Super 8 at all. Since they cannot practically be made both because there are no print stocks generally available and only one or two labs in the entire world make Super 8 prints with residual stocks, the only use for Super 8 is either home projection or direct-to-telecine. Since direct-to-telecine can be from either the reversal original or negative original, it basically comes down to an artistic preference for contrast or not. Therefore my opinion is that negative Super 8 is neither more or less professional than reversal.[/quote]






Dead right, reversal/neg to telecine is the best route then, if possible, blow up to 35mm.