how does widescreenwork for super8?

Post by **mr.jordan** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:04 pm

I want to make my super 8 films in a widescreen format.
my question is about the anamorphic lenses. they confuse me very much.
i know that there are C-mount widelenses available, but for us with nizos, canons, etc, what is available in the lens department?

-are there threaded anamorpic attachment lenses available? (none that i can find)
-is our only option to go super-dooper 8?
-is there any other way to get a widescreen look or feel, besides matting in post?
-what are the possibilites , (and dont tell me to get a 16mm camera, super8 is where im going)

thank :oops: you

Post by **SteveH** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:57 am

There are a number of Anamorphic (or 'A lenses') that can be used with Nizo and Canon Super 8 cameras 'Kowa' and 'Iscorama' seem to be amongst the most common makes, but there are drawbacks (oh yes).

For a breakdown of all the ins and outs see this guy's website:
http://www.super8mm.org/anamorphic.html

Kowa 8-Z lenses seem to be the easiest lense to acquire at a reasonable price but the main drawback is that they have a relatively small rear element and will thus incur heavy vignetting penalties on all the bigger (and invariably better) Super 8 cameras which tend to have large fixed zoom lenses. The Iscorama 54 is I believe a much larger lens and avoids these problems but is a way more expensive to get hold of.

It's worth emphasising that the bracket to hold the anamorphic lens will be harder to find than the lens itself. I have a Kowa 8-Z and although I am dead keen to use it full time I still have no satisfactory way of attaching the lens to the camera. In addition I am still hunting for a decent camera with the minimum of vignetting. The whole process is generally a bit of a headache and more than a little off-putting. It is, sadly, another aspect of the Super 8 market that is very poorly catered for.

Post by **mattias** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 3:11 am

crop to anamorphic 16:9 in the video transfer. i suspect this will give you at least as sharp results as any anamorphic converter lens. a real anamorphic prime would probably be the best though.

/matt

Post by **mr.jordan** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 3:41 am

great link. thank you steveH

So I would like to take my 80mm lens to 1.5x or 2x anamorphic, but from the sound of it, its not likely with the lenses that are out there.
is there a chance that there would be an anamorphic lens that would work with that big of a lens?

Post by **mattias** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 3:44 am

are you projecting on transferring to video? if the latter see my first response. just protect for 16:9, or use a "common topline".

/matt

Post by **SteveH** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 4:00 am

mr.jordan wrote:great link. thank you steveH

So I would like to take my 80mm lens to 1.5x or 2x anamorphic, but from the sound of it, its not likely with the lenses that are out there.
is there a chance that there would be an anamorphic lens that would work with that big of a lens?

Even a Kowa 8-Z should work with an 80mm prime lense - to some extent - in that part but not all of the zoom range would be usable before vignetting became apparent. According to this site:
http://members.aol.com/Super8mm/Widescreen.html
an Iscorama 54 "allows you to film all the way to full wide angle on a Canon 1014E" and this camera has a pretty hefty lense, so it is possible but you will pay a premium for an Iscorama.

Post by **mr.jordan** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 4:15 am

i am transfering to video via my PC, then onto DVD

instead of going through all the lens finding and buying and then mounting buisness, i think ill just end up croping at 16:9 for now. i have a good matte box with my new camera nizo 6080 and i was thinking of just creating a 16:9 cardstock matte for the box, then i wouldnt have to fuss with it in post. and could retain a common crop while filming.
or i could do the 16:9 matte on a glass plate, and paint out or mark off or my frame? i dont know which would be best, ie. if the glass would cause bad reflection into the lens?

what exactly is "protecting for 16:9"? and what is a common topline?

thank you

*thanks for the lens info steveh ill check it out

Post by **LastQuark** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 5:42 am

mr.jordan wrote:So I would like to take my 80mm lens to 1.5x or 2x anamorphic, but from the sound of it, its not likely with the lenses that are out there.

Not really. Check out these great deals from eBay. Well, the auctions were already closed. These are Kowa Anamophic in rare 1.5x!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 3825884602

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 3817261134

The Iscorama's are harder to find. If there is one available, they will cost between US$500-$1,000.

If you can afford it, go with the Iscorama's. They are great lens and have a rotating ring to align the lens while it is threaded to your camera.

Ã‚Â

Post by **Rick Palidwor** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 7:03 am

It's not the same as anamorphic but if you want to consider the super-duper 8 option, it's a simple camera modification which you can do your self (or we'll do it for $50). Many transfer facilities can accomodate the extra frame width. If there are none in your area you could send it to us. We just modified a camera for a guy in LA and he is sending us some film next week for super-duper transfer. I'll ask him to post his impression once he gets his stuff back.

Having said all that, did I once read here that the Nizo 6080 does not convert to super-duper? If so, I guess it's not an option for you.

Rick
http://www.friendlyfirefilms.ca

Post by **Freya** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:46 am

mattias wrote:are you projecting on transferring to video? if the latter see my first response. just protect for 16:9, or use a "common topline".

/matt

common topline is a great phrase! Does that mean the top of the frame is the same for 4:3 as for 14:9, 16:9 etc? If so I spent ages trying to explain what I meant about framing this way once and didn't realise there was a special word for it!

I like it!

Have I got that right???? :?:

love

Freya

charlieboy · Post by **charlieboy** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 6:35 pm

Shooting in widescreen has it`s problems, and difficulties, but the end results when done correctly are great, I have a Liecina with Kowa PA35 lens, the Kowa has a rear glass area the same as the Iscorama 54, which is 54mm, however it is not only the rear glass area that matters, the length of the lens is also crucial, the Canon 1014e is a good choice as it`s front lens is only 58mm, and yet has a 10-1 zoom, whereas Nizo, and Bauer top models have much larger front elements, you can see my camera set up in the pictures section, getting a lens bracket is no problem as S.R.B. film services make these to specification.[/img]

Post by **downix** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 7:14 pm

Rick Palidwor wrote:Having said all that, did I once read here that the Nizo 6080 does not convert to super-duper? If so, I guess it's not an option for you.

Rick
http://www.friendlyfirefilms.ca

I found that my Vivitar as originally designed could not convert either due to vinetting. So, I re-centered the lens, and viola, a Super-Duper Vivitar. Took less than 2 hours of work to do. I'm curious how the Nizo's optics are handled, it might be capable of being re-centered.

Post by **tim** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 12:23 am

In case they are useful, there are a few pics of my scope arrangements and some notes on construction on

http://www.isoplethics.co.uk/scope.htm

There are about 1.5 MB of pics there so it can take a while to download.

Post by **SteveH** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:28 am

tim wrote:In case they are useful, there are a few pics of my scope arrangements and some notes on construction on

http://www.isoplethics.co.uk/scope.htm

There are about 1.5 MB of pics there so it can take a while to download.

Tim, regarding the Canon 518/Kowa setup, is the swivel joint used something you have made yourself? Can you provide more details about this component? I presume it's similar to the Centamount coupling the Widescreen Centre used to sell?

Post by **tim** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 9:08 am

Tim, regarding the Canon 518/Kowa setup, is the swivel joint used something you have made yourself? Can you provide more details about this component?

I am not familiar with the Widescreen item. The swivel joint arrangement depends slightly on the relationship between the rear thread on the anamorphic and the diameter of the focus ring on the camera lens.

Since these are about the same for the Kowa/Canon combination, this joint comprises:

- a clamp ring around the focus ring. This is a close-fitting split ring tightened by a screw across the split.

- a second ring threaded to screw onto the Kowa rear thread. This ring is grooved to take set screws.

- a cup that fits over the focus-ring and has set-screws to locate in the anamorphic ring. The locating bar that prevents rotation of the anamorphic screws into this cup.

Does that help? If not, I'll try to find time to put a drawing of this on that page.

Yes, I did make them myself.