6008 S ( beaulieu ) any reccomendations or worries./

[jerseyfilm 8]

I am thinking of investing in the Beaulieu 6008 S model, and am using the canon 1014e at present, does anyone own one of these and if so what could you say about them, my main concern is picture qaulity, thanks for any replies..

[Guest]

If equipped with a good lens, the Beaulieu will smoke the Canon. See this comparative review:
http://www.city-net.com/~fodder/s8mm/camtest.html

[S8 Booster]

If equipped with a good lens, the Beaulieu will smoke the Canon. See this comparative review:
http://www.city-net.com/~fodder/s8mm/camtest.html

This "test" is not valid. The guy did not know the features on the Canon at all. This was just a "rip-off" test. He did apparently not even know the Canon´s optional 220° shutter for low light shoot and it is a typical feature of the Schnei/Angenieuxes lenses that they allow more light through the center than in the corners (severe vignetting). In average (whole area measured) they do not let though more light than the Canon lens. Shooting a light bulb is a plain joke for this "test"

The Canon lens with its unique coating is designed to optimize the K40, ie widening the colour and contrast range of the K40. Actually K40 shots with the Canon compares well with the 50D in appearance but much sharper.

The Canon 1014 XL-S inherited the light metering/exposure control systems from the Canon A1 and Canon Scoopic 16mm, the later otimized for "fool proof" news reversal auto exposure filming and the 1014 "tweaks" the K40 to its max levels by all ways while still within the safe limits of reversal films.

The extended range in colour and contrast may for some look as if the image is less sharp. Go up to the screen when the film is projected on you will see that the images are "Samurai Sword" sharp. This extended ranges can be misunderstood for less sharpness but it is not. Other lenses may appear sharper due to their narrow contrast range and colour balance, "compressing" the images.

It is also possible to "sharpen" the images of the Canon by undexpose the film some from the standard setting by dropping the exposure compensation dial by -1/3 stop in the preset. Using a polarizer filter with this lens will also sharpen the images more if that is the ultimate gual while still not loose the colour range.

I own both the Canon 1014 XL-S, a Beaulieu 5008 and a Elmo 1012 S-XL for reference.

Here you can find one rating of the Canon glass (1014 - older model) from a rental company: http://www.acmi.net.au/super8/services/equip.html

Here is anoter independant comment on this issue:

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cameraguy
Senior Hostboard Member

Posts: 152
From: New England
Registered: Mar 2001 posted December 14, 2001 11:37
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Isn't the 814XL-S just the most. I could not get over how incredible my test roll came out when I got one this summer. I was brainwashed into thinking 'beaulieu' 'beaulieu' 'beaulieu' is what was neede to get the sharpest out of Super 8. Now I do have a 4008 and it gives incredibly sharp images but in a projected test the Canon's is just as good. I had a 514XL-S which was good but the XL only shutter made images just too soft. Now I have a Nikon R10 that I will be trying soon and can't wait to see how it compares.

cg

So if you want the best K40 images available projected, rock steady and with low/no grain, the best and most acurate light meter/exposure auto/manual control available and no lens vignetting you´ll go for the Canon. Also Canons have an excellent reputation for reliability and they have many filming technique features that I am pretty sure the 6008 do not have, although I do not know that cam in detail.

R

[Pedro]

I believe, that the special shutter concept of the Beaulieu, not having ANYGHING inbetween lens and film surface, allows technically the best possible exposure, in terms of amount of light (no beam-splitter for the viewfinder), sharpness and contrast. Where nothing is inbetween, nothing can disturb or decrease quality, quite simple. The Canon is definitively not built that way, it´s built like the big mass of S8-cameras, with that beam splitter prisma, nothing special at all. Besides Beaulieu, I think only Leica cameras share the same strategy.
The mentioned test results, shooting a 60 W bulb in the dark and looking what camera produces the most bright footage, can tell you sth about the LL abilities and confirms what the constructional concept of the Beaulieus promises. It must be assumed, that all 3 cameras had been set to the most open LL settings, also the Canon to XL.

The achievable pic quality of the Beaulieu only depends on the lens used and its adjustment. There are several lenses available, in several price ranges and quality ranges. The Schneider 6-70 is actually vignetting (in extreme settings only, that is 70 mm and open stop), The Angenieux 6-80 definitively not. I am using this lens and it is the most perfect construction I ever held in hand. You can use it in any extreme situation, at any focal length, at any stop, down to 1:1,2, you always will have perfect results. I am pretty shure, that there is no other camera-lens combination that will produce such perfect S8 pictures.
The exposure setting of the Beaulieu can be influenced in 1/3 stop steps with the speed setting, so you are open for any film speed and can control the exposure right to your needs. A slightly darker setting will give you more crisp sharp and saturized images, a slightly brighter setting will give you brighter images on big screens with weak projectors and will appear the grain less.
Film grain cannot depend on the camera used, that is only a story, I would say! Film grain in inherent in the film and not in the camera. Only the film and the development determin the amount of grain. The kind of exposure can make it APPEAR a little bit more or less, thats all.

So far, to relativate a little bit the Canon marketing...

When you want to purchase a 6008, please observe my following tipp:
Look for a model with a full ground glass! Normally these models are marked with "MD" in the type, have a LED digital frame counter and a second control LED on the front panel and a second power switch at the handle.
The original 6008 have NO real ground glass viewfinder and this way all that boring problems like any other S8 camera, regarding focus control in the viewfinder. As this focus control determins the crispness of the result, I think it is one of the most important features of the camera. With a full ground glass, you can focus at any place in the viewfinder, very exactly and much quicker than with split image or matt spot!
If your purchased model has NO ground glass, you can have it applicated afterwards at Beaulieu service. This is also a good idea, as they will service and check the complete camera and adjust the lens perfectly.
Note, that the Schneider Optivaron 6-70 lens is NOT the best available. The problem with this lens is, that the quality never had been very constant. You may be lucky and purchase a very good one, but you cannot know it in advance. The very best is the (rare) Angenieux 6-80, a pure proffessional T-lens.

Pedro

[paul]

How about the image stability of these cameras? I heard from a pensioned Beaulieu repairman, who always had to test the cameras when they came in from France before they were distributed to the shops, that the 6008 images proved to be instable very often during the tests (in an embarrasing way), due to (if I remember correctly) a longer (capstan?) axis than in the 5008 which had a much shorter one. Or could it be this applies only to the first generation 6008's? I believe the 5008's were notorious for their image stability. Wonder if Bjorn and Pedro can confirm this. The 7008's were said to be better in this respect.

Paul

[Guest]

Yeah, what Pedro said! Equipped with a great lens, the Beaulieu will smoke the Canon.

[Guest]

I have a canon 1014xls and Beaulieu 4008zmII with 8-64 angenueix lens...The 8-64 is a lot sharper than the canon, i mean a lot sharper.....

[Bjorn Andersson]

There should not be any difference in stability between 5008 and 6008/7008/9008. If the frame, not have had real stability it has been varying from cassette to cassette. This have happend since the sounds cassettes was introdused. The jitter problem was for me, not a real new "problem", but it was not like it was a year ago, far far away from the stucked cassettes.
The filmtransport in both 5008 and 6008/7008 and 9008 use the same parts, therefore it would not be any difference. I think your source mix something else up in this. I have also heard some "rumours" about many other parts that could cause unsteady frames.
I have since 1974, serviced many thousands of Beaulieu cameras, and noticed the difference in stability between different cassettes in the past.

[Tom]

Pedro,

I have a Beaulieu 4008ZMII with the 6-80mm Angenieux lens (interstingly as you say, marked in T stops rated @ f1.4 on the apeture ring and f1.2 on the barrel) like yourself and I have vignetting at fully wide and focus settings in the macro range, even when I take off all filters and lens hood. Are you saying this is what I should not have? Did you have your lens collimated to your body?

Bjorn has told me that this is normal with this lens, perhaps he would like to comment further?

Regards.

[Bjorn Andersson]

You can bee sure that Pedros lens is well adjusted.
I´m a bit confused when a read what Pedros says about the vignetting on both Angeniaux 6-80 and Schneider 1,4/6-70. I have just checked in 3 differnent 1,2/6-80 lenses to refresh my memory. There is vignetting in macro area and 8-12mm.
In 1,4/6-70, vignetting appear only when using a 62mm filter and then a lenshood, but in the area 7-10mm.

[Tom]

Bjorn,

Interestingly I did manage to remove all vignetting once after I read an article by Martin Baumgarten on DIY collimation.

Since without specialist equipment it is impossible to adjust the back-focus on these lenses he suggests a method by which after you loosen the set screws on the front focussing barrel you can adjust the lens so that the readings on the barrel conicide with measurments you take with a tape measure.

I found that I could adjust the lens so that there was no vignetting but the readings on the barrel were then way out - I wonder if this is what happened with Pedro's lens - I mean fosussing through the ground glass viewfinder would be correct but if you tape measured the distance the reading on the barrel would be incorrect? I may be wrong here - though I doubt this could have happened with a perfectionist like Pedro but it is one explanation I can offer.

Regards.

[Pedro]

Hi all,
I have a 9008special model with the c-mount lens 6-80 and a 6008SMD model with the Beaulieu-mount lens 6-70. The Schneider 6-70 did show a significant vigneting at open stop in 70 mm position. It always showed this effect, when doing a zoom detail close up shot at 56 fps to keep it stable.
As I had not been satisfyed with the overall sharpness performance of that 6008+Schneider, I got it serviced at Ritter/Germany in 1990. Plus they built in a full square gound glass. After that service, I had a much better sharpness and a nearly not notable vignetting under the same conditions. As I am not a camera service man, I don´t exactly understand why, but I was very happy.
The 9008 model I first used wiht my old 6-70 Schneider lens until I decided to upgrade to a 6-80 lens. For this, I had to have the camera modified to version "special" (pure c-mount). And the 6-80 image results "smoke" the Schneider completly, it´s noting but totally perfect (and I am very critical regardin image quality), at all settings!
What may be disturbing is, that the settings that make no sense are not locked and may result in faulty images. This can occure when you focus to the macro range (red line) and use wide angle. The macro range is designed to be used with longer zoom settings.
Pedro

[Pedro]

I definitively noted vignetting in tele range (70 mm) at the Schneider 6-70 lens. The shots are made with max slow motion (56 fps), which caused the iris to open completly. I had been in Rio de Janeiro and pointed from downwards up to the Christo Redentor monument on the top of the Corcovado mountain. The sky a little bit cloudy, not blue, more white. And in this diffuse white background, there is a significant vignetting visible!

Concerning pic stability, I never had had any problems with 6008 or 9008 (besides the faulty carts). Even the new, thinner VNF stock runs jitter-free. Camera jitter depends a lot on the state of the claw mechanism and the claw spring. But I was told by a specialist, that the 5008 construction is slightly differnt to the 6008 construction, using a shorter arm length for the claw, leading to more stable shots. As I have no 5008, I cannot confirm this personally, but the man who told me is very reliable. I would prefer the 6008 (with ground glass!!!) over the 5008, it´s less heavy, more ergonomic to use, an actual model with a perfect power supply possibility and a very good performance under low light conditions (special shutter setting). You must take care when transporting it, for not forcing the viewfinder (plastic tubus). Once, they destroyed my viewfinder in the air plane, better use a hard case.
Who likes creative photografy and prefers a real big and bright viewfinder like a 35 mm camera, will prefer the 4008 models over the 6008. Their strong point it the viewfinder, without any doubt. And the viewfinder is the interface to your mind, where your film is being created.
Pedro

[Bjorn Andersson]

Pedro.
I must correct you about the vignetting, that you say you have on your 6-70 lens. What you now are talking about, is loss of light in the outer areas of the lens.
Full open iris at 70mm: There is nothing in the lens or in front/around the lens that physicaly can be reproducted on the film at that focal lenght, exept the view that you have filmed.
What I was talking about, was when a part of the lens, filter or lenshood is covering parts of the exposed film and you also clearly can see this in the viewfinder.
The claw in 5008 and 6008/7008/9008 is exactly the same!
Even if the sparepart number is different, the part is still the same in all of these cameras.
Bjorn Andersson

[Riku N]

What causes this and when does this occur? I've seen this in many footage shot with different cameras and suffered from this myself too.