visual products...

Post by **shralp** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 7:52 am

Yup, I've never been enamoured with the CP-16 from a aesthetic point of view. Not that it effects image quality but I'm just the type of person that needs to have an emotional response from a camera, (at least one that I own rather than rent), before I'll really want to use it. Luckily, many cameras fall into this category but the CP-16 is not one of those.

I agree with the overall package being a great value as well, Roger. Since this camera, shooting sound striped reversal mostly, was used by most decently sized market television stations all over U.S. before portable video was feasible, there should be a fair number around as well. I shot a short docu back in filmschool with one and it seemed quite user friendly.

Post by **Nigel** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:25 am

Roger--

I think that a person could find a S16 ACL or even CP via InSync, 24FPS or a broker for half that price...

Hell the way eBay has been deflating prices one could get an ACL for 800USD and have the overhaul and conversion done for 2000 or less. 6500 is a lot for that package. The body should be selling for about 1500 tops, extra mag 500, batts/charger 150, the 15-150 lens 500....It is a 3000USD package that they are selling at 6500. You can buy an Ikonoskop for less than that and it will be just as noisy....

Good Luck

Post by **MovieStuff** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 2:54 pm

Nigel wrote: I think that a person could find a S16 ACL or even CP via InSync, 24FPS or a broker for half that price...

Studio quiet, multi-speed, crystal synched with two mags, two battery packs, a zoom lens and freshly refurbished? Great, give us a link where we can find it. I think there are probably several people here that would throw down $3500 for a killer Super-16mm package like that. I know Scott would probably like one. He certainly couldn't build one cheaper than $3500.

Nigel wrote: The body should be selling for about 1500 tops...

Since CP conversions for S-16 are anywhere from $1800-$2500, how do you figure? Are you suggesting the places that do the conversions will just throw in a body for free? Or, maybe if you send them a body, they'll do the conversion for nothing? How do you get a sell price of $1500 for a Super-16 body when the conversion charges are easily $500 more than that?

Again, what you think it should be selling for isn't relevant. Since I first posted, I did some research and, believe me, as far as I can see $6500 for a studio quiet, multi-speed, crystal synched Super-16 camera with all the trimmings is as cheap as they come, whether one likes the asthetics of the unit or not. No offense but I think you're letting your own personal dislike for the CP-16 cloud your value perception. I mean if it's not an Aaton, it's worthless, right?

BTW: How is the sale of your S16 Aaton going? ;)

Nigel wrote:It is a 3000USD package that they are selling at 6500.

Not at all. Regular, non-Super 16 CPs are selling for about $3000. You can't get around the value of the conversion, itself. No one is going to do it for free.

Nigel wrote:You can buy an Ikonoskop for less than that and it will be just as noisy

CP16s are hardly noisey. But, what sort of features and accessories come with the Ikonoskop? Oh, that's right. They don't!

Roger
http://www.moviestuff.tv

Post by **Nigel** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 5:01 pm

Here is one...

http://www.mandy.com/1/class3.cfm?id=16501

Then add 2000 for the S16 conversion and overhaul and you are still less than 6500. It is not that I think that the CP is a bad camera in any way. I am simply saying that with some leg work one could find the same set-up for less than what VP is selling it for.

As for my Aaton. I'm investing money into it right now--which may be a bad idea in the end. I have had a few gigs with it since I stopped pushing it. Overall, the price for film equipment is dropping and dropping fast--Like it or not. Its a buyers market--That is part of the reason why I am keeping my camera.

Good Luck

Post by **Basstruc** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 7:03 pm

http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... eName=WDVW

here is another one. Add 2000Ã¢â€šÂ¬ for conversion and you'l get nearly half the price visual products is asking. There's even a K3 as a gift...

Post by **Basstruc** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 7:05 pm

even less:
http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... eName=WDVW

Post by **rollemfilm** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 2:28 am

Basstruc,

Both those cameras are CP "A" models, not the CP"R"...

The CPA cannot, at this time anyway, be converted to super 16. Those prices are correct with current trends. Visual Products offers a decent warranty that makes their packages very desirable.

Find a CP"R" at those prices, then you have something.

Post by **MovieStuff** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 2:44 am

rollemfilm wrote: Both those cameras are CP "A" models, not the CP"R". The CPA cannot, at this time anyway, be converted to super 16.
Find a CP"R" at those prices, then you have something.

Exactly.

Post by **Basstruc** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:54 am

Thanks mates, I didn't knew about it ( didn't interest myself in ugly cameras before

)
What's difference between the two models other than that ?
Matt

Post by **rollemfilm** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:40 am

The CP A is not a true reflex camera. It uses a beam splitter style Angenieux for reflex.

Post by **marc** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:35 am

Basstruc wrote:They do CP16 to Super16 conversion for 2000$ and with PL conversion for 2500$. Anyway, I think this camera is pretty ugly. Even repainted. Will never be cuter than a Eclair ACL (with 200ft mags) or aaton's.

Who care's how the camera looks? Does the camera produce nice footage? Because that is the only looks that I am concerned about.

Post by **Basstruc** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:42 pm

Who care's how the camera looks? Does the camera produce nice footage? Because that is the only looks that I am concerned about.

This was just for fun .... common...

Post by **Nigel** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:15 pm

Marc--

How good looking are you?? I didn't know that the camera "Produced" anything--Isn't that your job as the Op/DP??

Take that lightly
Good Luck

Post by **Brandt** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:22 pm

I've heard through the grapevine that there are other individuals/companies that do S16 conversions on the CP. Numbers I have seen go as low as $1k. Anyone know anything about these other resources?

I agree that the camera is heavy and not very sexy, but it's very quiet, easy to use, and has a retro look that I find really attractive. It's reinforces the atmosphere of independent production while still providing outstanding pictures.

Also, does anyone know if the S16 conversion can be done on the bowtie mirror, or only on the halfmoon mirror?

Post by **Basstruc** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:09 pm

I agree that the camera is heavy and not very sexy

I like it better with mitchell style mag indeed

Does anyone know if Kinor 16mm are S16 convertable ?