Another thread on cameras for WorkPrinters.

[Henderson]

Okay, I just got my WorkPrinter and I'm still confused as to what cameras to use with it. I understand the whole thing about the greater than 12X zoom but what I don't get is the interlacing aspect. I've been testing Dodcap with my mini DV and I do see interlaced frames. Why is this? Also, wouldn't there be interlaced frames with a broadcast quality camera too? Wouldn't it be best to use scanning cameras without interlacing? I HATE INTERLACING

Any help would be appreciated cause I'm about to buy a camera specifically for my WP.

Henderson

[MovieStuff]

what I don't get is the interlacing aspect. I've been testing Dodcap with my mini DV and I do see interlaced frames. Why is this?

If you do a test with the subject moving in front of the camera (like a waving hand), then you will see the results of interlacing because the subject would be in a different place for each field. However, if the subject were stationary (like a frame of film), then it will look the same as progressive scan because nothing changed between the scan of each field of a given video frame. eithe way, once in the computer, there really is no "interlacing" since the computer just sees each frame as a still frame image, like a JPG, whether it was created progressive scan or interlaced. The interlacing is only "added" on playback for the sake of display on a normal television.

[super8man]

I'm soooo excited...my workprinter was ordered in mid-March....nice to see people receiving theirs...can;t wait for mine. I am thinking a more useful "second" forum would be one for all aspects (highly technical) of using a workprinter for super 8 and 18mm (and 8mm) transfers. Just my two cents. We could discuss and post comments on software, pc/mac hardware configs, mini-dv cams used, etc. etc.

Just an idea.

Cheers,
Michael

PS - My 50-foot reels are starting to take on a new meaning: A means to an end instead of an end in of themselves.

[Raimo]

Roger, ( or anyone else out there )-If you were to design a camera for the Workprinter, what generic features would it have? My second question is this- is anyone using a currently manufactured camera with the workprinter that imports the camera data directly to the PC ( via firewire cable ) without using DV tape? What is the brand of video camera? Also, perhaps Workprinter users could share what cameras they are using and the pros and cons of their units. This would surely help us decide what camera to get for a future Workprinter purchase. Thanks.

[MovieStuff]

Roger, ( or anyone else out there )-If you were to design a camera for the Workprinter, what generic features would it have?

Well, the best for the money is the Canon GL2. It's a three chip camera with a nice, fat 20X zoom and fire wire out. Reasonably priced, IMHO, at around $1800, I believe.

My second question is this- is anyone using a currently manufactured camera with the workprinter that imports the camera data directly to the PC ( via firewire cable ) without using DV tape?

The WorkPrinter does not use DV tape during capture. The firewire output of the DV camera does exactly what you are seeking: It imports the camera data directly to the PC and bypasses tape entirely.

[T-Scan]

I'm soooo excited...my workprinter was ordered in mid-March....nice to see people receiving theirs...can;t wait for mine. I am thinking a more useful "second" forum would be one for all aspects (highly technical) of using a workprinter for super 8 and 18mm (and 8mm) transfers. Just my two cents. We could discuss and post comments on software, pc/mac hardware configs, mini-dv cams used, etc. etc.

Just an idea.

Cheers,
Michael

PS - My 50-foot reels are starting to take on a new meaning: A means to an end instead of an end in of themselves.

Dido, mine ships out tomorrow and i'm also excited. have my new PC up and ready. if anyone remembers the thread about "PC for editing" i had one custum built, 2 120GB Raid 0, 120 system drive and 1.5G RAM. dotcap loaded and tested with DV.. this thing is fast all around! i'm hoping i can post some clips here soon.

[Santo]

Okay, another one of many, many, many threads on this workprinter topic, the wonderful invention that it is!

Here's a question I've been thinking about and I thought I'd ask (no sense in another thread -- if any topic deserves a seperate forum it's this one, certainly not "filmmaking" or "used equipment" or whatever).

Anyways, how about the home HD edit situation? Roger (or anybody who's done it), what about this JVC HD camcorder deal? Or other HD camcorders I'm unaware of, but certain to be released any day now?

I'm putting the finishing touches on my first feature's edit -- shot on a combination of miniDV with touches of super 8 Plus-X -- and took a break and wandered over to the local Future Shop (electronics superstore) and had a look upstairs. The astonishing HD plasma TVs you can buy for 6 to 12 grand blew my mind.

So here's the set up I came up with on my walk home, my head spinning with possibilities for how I can pull my next feature, mostly shot on super 8, off:

1) Top end resolution super 8 cameras fitted with widescreen super 8 gates, or, maybe, anamoprphic lens. Sound on MD.

2) Latest reversal stock Plus-X combined with (colour) HD and widescreen miniDV in a feature I've got on the drawing boards. I'd rather not reveal the concept in public, but it requires a three format shoot.

3) A pressure plate to ensure a minimum of focus breathing and image instability.

4) Workprinter for transfer of the super 8 in initial edit, saving thousands over rank or spirit. Perhaps even that will be enough -- provided that:

a) I can use one of these JVC HD camcorders (or another comparable camcorder about to released that I don't know about). Has anybody shot with one of these off a workprinter? The "still" mode must be spectacular.

b) Off-line HD edit is possible. I remember reading that that is possible with some edit systems. Which ones? Is there any system that will edit HD outright.

So what's wrong here? What am I missing?

What computer set up that would be perfect for this? Cost almost no object. I'm hardly made of money, but I've got enough these days to finance my own low budget features thanks to all my hard work, so I can indulge a fair amount. What would you put in your modest little production office if you had such a mandate? Anybody?

BTW, I heard from Shawn at Forever in DVD that he's going to be offering the world's first available workprinter-based HD transfer that's affordable to independents (in a few months time). Don't know anything about it beyond that, but sounds extremely interesting.

A lot of questions here, don't expect exact answers. Speculation welcome. I'm pretty ignorant on these matters.

[Forever on DVD]

BTW, I heard from Shawn at Forever on DVD that he's going to be offering the world's first available workprinter-based HD transfer that's affordable to independents (in a few months time). Don't know anything about it beyond that, but sounds extremely interesting.

Yes, it is in the works. I hope to be up and running in HD by mid August. Still, there are a lot of details to be worked out.

For those of you who think you'd be interested in an affordable HD film transfer, here is a question for you:

How would you like to receive your digitized video? Due to the huge size of the files, transportation of the data is a major issue. I really don't see us in the market competing against million dollar Spirits, so I doubt our typical client will have or want to rent a $50k+ HD VTR. So, we're limited to hard drives, HDV, D-VHS and perhaps Windows Media 9 and other HD codec transcoded files. These are probably the formats that we'll support first, but if anyone has any comments or suggestions, I'd really like to hear them.

Feel free to e-mail or call directly.

Kindest regards,

Shawn

*************************************
Shawn Kimmel
shawn@foreverondvd.com
http://www.foreverondvd.com
Forever on DVD
4125 Wolfe Point Way
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada K1V 1P4
(613) 822-9930
Toll free: 1-8mm-onto-dvd (1-866-668-6383)
Ultra-high quality digital film transfers
Video and film archiving - DVD Productions
*************************************

[LastQuark]

b) Off-line HD edit is possible. I remember reading that that is possible with some edit systems. Which ones? Is there any system that will edit HD outright.

I can only answer one of your questions. :lol: This is now possible using Premiere Pro. I believe it was possible on the Premiere 6.5 too with an add-on. This was a request of JVC to add direct mpeg import. Adobe is balking at first but when mpeg on DV media became a standard together with Sony, Canon, and Sharp, Adobe didn't waste any time.
 

[LastQuark]

How would you like to receive your digitized video? Due to the huge size of the files, transportation of the data is a major issue. I really don't see us in the market competing against million dollar Spirits, so I doubt our typical client will have or want to rent a $50k+ HD VTR. So, we're limited to hard drives, HDV, D-VHS and perhaps Windows Media 9 and other HD codec transcoded files. These are probably the formats that we'll support first, but if anyone has any comments or suggestions, I'd really like to hear them.

Tough one. We are still at the crossroads. HDV and D-VHS are not as popular yet although it appears HDV will be the standard in the future. The immediate need, I think, is to get DVD quality scans rather than the DV quality available at present. The difference is significant when viewing on a 60" TV. The current need is: telecine using HD, then encode in DVD resolution using the widely available DVD media and players.
 

[ericMartinJarvies]

How would you like to receive your digitized video? Due to the huge size of the files, transportation of the data is a major issue. I really don't see us in the market competing against million dollar Spirits, so I doubt our typical client will have or want to rent a $50k+ HD VTR. So, we're limited to hard drives, HDV, D-VHS and perhaps Windows Media 9 and other HD codec transcoded files. These are probably the formats that we'll support first, but if anyone has any comments or suggestions, I'd really like to hear them.

hello,

what i think would be a valuable service for filmmakers wanting to master to dvd as well as have a final cut ready to master to hd and to actual film(assuming 16mm[even s8mm], blow up to 35mm), wherein they desire the highest possible image quality for the buck, thus enabling them the ability to composit any such frames or scenes or sequences with their high res footage prior to down conversion and output on dvd/tape.

if your hd camera took and recorded at 24fps, then it would be a 1:1 fps transfer ... correct? so the digital file would be edited at 24 frames, therefore the MASTER file/final cut is a true 24 fps digital movie that can then be pal'd or ntsc'd when mastered to tape/dvd/whatever. this would be cool because then you could effectively mark you actual physical film with the in-frame/first frame, and have an effect or easy logging system when comparing your digital files with your actual film footage/reels. this way, if in fact one wanted to not use their hd high res footage for the blow up to film, but rather wanted to use their actual film stock, indexing would be much easier as it relates to the nle editing and then labling the actual film stock for cutting. then, the only footage that would need to be transferred from hd to film would be those frames that have had color correction or compositing work done on them. understand?

naturally, the best route yet is to capture frame by frame using a larger sensor of a dSLR camera, making sure the blow up is optical and not digital. with hd, you are at 3/4 of an ince ... so you original digital file is 3/4's of an inch. if you were using a 25mm or 35mm sensor(like the kodak 14n dslr), then your original digital file is obviously larger then the 3/4" hd, plus a higher quality file because inharent between still and video sensors.

but what would REALLY be awesome is if someone invested the money into a nice medium format digital back like a kodak or leaf, and used a nice hassleblad(or like type lens) medium format lens that was setup in such a way that it would take the 8mm/16mm frame of film and optically enlarge it to the size of the medium format digital sensor, then the original frame of film that is digitized at this point provides one with single frames of film that are 1k, 2k, or 4k no problem ... meaning the best of the best compositing work can be performed on these files, downsized to hd or sd, and output accoridngly.

and for the filmmaker, assuming they has someone that offered the above service, would merely need to invest a few hundred dollars into a decklnk blackmagic i/o card(you dont need an hd card at $1999.99 to playback uncompressed high res movies ... the $300. card will do ... go to http://www.decklink.com ), and another $1500.00 into 3 u320 15k 37gb scsi drives, a ul4d 133 card, and a jbod enclosure with dual 68 pin connectors, power supply, fans, etc., and you would have everything you need to edit and payback high res files(asuming you have a g5 or nice pc).

this would mean only ONE edit/final cut ... and everything from that point would merely be a decision/process ... be it making a film print from your digital files, or downsizing these files and making an hd output, or downsizing and making an sd/dvd/tape master ... or just some dv masters for handouts and what have you.

if you have the money to invest in a nice lens ... then check out the 75mm nikkor printing lens(not the EL ... the EL lenses are cheap ... good lens, but not nearly as good as the $4k nikkor) ... or if you do not have the money, use a nikkor 75mm el, or even one of the many movie to 35mm conversion lenses ... also known as slide convertor lenses, or duplikin lenses(1:2 ratio). the duplikin's are nice lenses ... good glass. these duplikin type lenses would mean you would have to modify your work printer so that the lens is mounted in place of the current projecting lens, wherein it is literally attached to the gate ... but that is most likely doable seeing as how these lenses are thin on the gate side, and wider on the camera side. and again, these new dslr cameras have firewire, so you would not have to record directly onto the memory cards if you did not want to. regarding the hd video cameras, like the jvc, yo would have to recrod to tape, then onto the computer if you wanted to use the differant formats/frame recording rates other then the dv/30fps ... generally speaking.

eric

[Santo]

How would you like to receive your digitized video? Due to the huge size of the files, transportation of the data is a major issue. I really don't see us in the market competing against million dollar Spirits, so I doubt our typical client will have or want to rent a $50k+ HD VTR. So, we're limited to hard drives, HDV, D-VHS and perhaps Windows Media 9 and other HD codec transcoded files. These are probably the formats that we'll support first, but if anyone has any comments or suggestions, I'd really like to hear them.

Tough one. We are still at the crossroads. HDV and D-VHS are not as popular yet although it appears HDV will be the standard in the future. The immediate need, I think, is to get DVD quality scans rather than the DV quality available at present. The difference is significant when viewing on a 60" TV. The current need is: telecine using HD, then encode in DVD resolution using the widely available DVD media and players.
 

I'm completely surprised by the developments with this D-VHS stuff. Seems great -- 4 hours of HD on what appears to be nothing more than a regular old VHS tape, and decks already selling for under $600 US at Walmart and you can play regular VHS tapes on them -- and they've got a regular firewire port. Amazing.

Can you record on a HDV machine at this point? I guess I should do some research on the web as this is already way off topic for this board.

But anyways, it seems like for the price of a few hours time doing a Spirit HD transfer of super 8 film, I can instead buy a D-VHS deck, transfer the film to HD on a Maxtor or maybe D-VHS using perhaps Shawn's upcoming service in a few months, edit using the material off-line with the software Last Quark mentioned, reassemble it, then output back onto D-VHS for a film-originated finished on HD project. A whole lot more acceptable to me than finished on standard definition video. All at a tiny fraction of what it costs using other current methods. Though no doubt it won't be as flawless as the super expensive professional methods, it would have to still look pretty darn good. And anybody shooting in super 8 is looking for some texture and extra film feel, anyways.

Very interesting.