100T Now Available...What about in Super 8?
Moderator: Andreas Wideroe
100T Now Available...What about in Super 8?
Now that Vision2 100T is available....or at least on the Kodak website, has anyone heard if it will be available in Super 8. I suppose I'm most interested in this film and in 100D E-6 processed film (although my first choice for E-6 is still going to be Velvia or Astia which are finer grain.) I suppose any of these in DS8 though is a pipe dream.....
But was that Vision2 500T they stopped
or Vision 500T they stopped. I think they're going to phase out the Vision stocks altogether and only have Vision2 for the negative offerings....at least that's my presumption.
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Santo
What a dream this 100 stock would be in super 8. At least we're going to see Vision2 200T in super 8. I think that's going to be pretty great. I really don't understand this constant call from a few people for 500 asa super 8 stock. High speed stocks are so over-exagerated grain-wise when cut down to super 8 that their uses are very limited. Plus you've got a small number of cameras which are set up to register it properly, unlike 200 and below -- which all cameras are set up to use very simply. Actually it was Vision2 500T they were looking at. It wouldn't make any market sense for Kodak to pursue 500 in super 8 if they investigated the added confusion among the average user and lack of cameras that automatically register it (causing the confusion) -- which I'm guessing is why they dropped it.
But who knows? Maybe they'll still release 500 and even 100? That Kodak tech guy who was on here a little while ago hinted about "a few stocks" or something like that, if you look up his posts. I forget his name at the moment.
But who knows? Maybe they'll still release 500 and even 100? That Kodak tech guy who was on here a little while ago hinted about "a few stocks" or something like that, if you look up his posts. I forget his name at the moment.
This is very subjectiv : remember that for most cinematographers, Super8 is anyway to much grainy.High speed stocks are so over-exagerated grain-wise when cut down to super 8 that their uses are very limited.
Why a user supposed to spend lot of money on telecine or print (since it's a negatic stock) would use the crappy internal meter of a super8 camera ? Never understood...Plus you've got a small number of cameras which are set up to register it properly
Actualy, this was the most asked cine filmstock for S8.It wouldn't make any market sense for Kodak to pursue 500 in super 8
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Santo
I'm only judging by the endless topics on here wherein many people are worried about their cameras registering even the new Plus-X which is straight forward 100 speed! I mean, there's been an endless string of those posts.
Introducing 500 which doesn't register in the majority of super 8 cameras multiplies the confusion. Most people simply won't end up buying it, because their camera doesn't register it. Never mind that it can be of course compensated for (or simply set with a Beaulieu -- but what if you don't like Beaulieus?). It remains one of the big draws of super 8 for new users -- the simple operation of the cameras and being able to shoot real film that actually turns out "looking cool" without a lot of perceived technical hassles. Real or imagined.
Whom do you think is buying the vast majority of all those cartridges, Bastruc? Studied filmmaking students like you or the average 'boarder, nostalgia enthusiast, and unschooled experimental short filmmaker looking to have some fun? Hint: it's not guys like you.
People can ask all they want for 500 asa and daylight balanced film like 100d Ektachrome, but a look at the vast majority of cameras manufactured and in use indicates
a) They are not set up for 500 asa film.
= confusion and reluctance from average wouldbe film stock buyers.
b) They are naturally equipped with built in (usually automatically engaged) tungsten filters for tugsten film, not daylight balanced film like 100d. And there's no consistency as to how this is engaged or disengaged manufacturer to manufacturer.
= confusion and reluctance from wouldbe film stock buyers. Again look at all the posts on this board expressing confusion over the topic of internal filters that have been posted! Incredible.
At least that's what I'd see if I were a guy at Kodak making such decisions: "Tungsten balanced films, 200 speed and under means minimal confusion and maximum ease of use for the great majority of super 8 filmmakers using and discovering the format. That's what we'll concentrate on."
Introducing 500 which doesn't register in the majority of super 8 cameras multiplies the confusion. Most people simply won't end up buying it, because their camera doesn't register it. Never mind that it can be of course compensated for (or simply set with a Beaulieu -- but what if you don't like Beaulieus?). It remains one of the big draws of super 8 for new users -- the simple operation of the cameras and being able to shoot real film that actually turns out "looking cool" without a lot of perceived technical hassles. Real or imagined.
Whom do you think is buying the vast majority of all those cartridges, Bastruc? Studied filmmaking students like you or the average 'boarder, nostalgia enthusiast, and unschooled experimental short filmmaker looking to have some fun? Hint: it's not guys like you.
People can ask all they want for 500 asa and daylight balanced film like 100d Ektachrome, but a look at the vast majority of cameras manufactured and in use indicates
a) They are not set up for 500 asa film.
= confusion and reluctance from average wouldbe film stock buyers.
b) They are naturally equipped with built in (usually automatically engaged) tungsten filters for tugsten film, not daylight balanced film like 100d. And there's no consistency as to how this is engaged or disengaged manufacturer to manufacturer.
= confusion and reluctance from wouldbe film stock buyers. Again look at all the posts on this board expressing confusion over the topic of internal filters that have been posted! Incredible.
At least that's what I'd see if I were a guy at Kodak making such decisions: "Tungsten balanced films, 200 speed and under means minimal confusion and maximum ease of use for the great majority of super 8 filmmakers using and discovering the format. That's what we'll concentrate on."
Your points are very good. But re: 100D, it also seems like Kodak would do best if they had an E-6 film as their non-Kodachrome S8 reversal film because those chemicals are far more common than VNF or EM-26. Maybe it ought to be Tungsten balanced (EPY or EPT film) to deal with the built-in filter issue, although I'm not big on those films because they're a bit grainy and not as saturated as Fuji 64T. Maybe a tunstenized version of one of the new Ektachrome films?
Who am I ? I personnaly ask myself this question so if yu got the answer, please tell me....Hint: it's not guys like you.
Hint : I'm not a student. If you had just previously cliked on my profile, you would have know....Studied filmmaking students like you
Simply use an external meter. Like everybody did before internal lightmeter.or simply set with a Beaulieu -- but what if you don't like Beaulieus?
Is everything supposed to be built in ?They are naturally equipped with built in (usually automatically engaged) tungsten filters for tugsten film, not daylight balanced film like 100d.
Kodak may know far better there customers than you. And even if the large majority of actual Super8 filmmaker agree with you, did you heard about this economical aspect : conquering new customers, new markets ?Whom do you think is buying the vast majority of all those cartridges, Bastruc? Studied filmmaking students like you or the average 'boarder, nostalgia enthusiast, and unschooled experimental short filmmaker looking to have some fun?
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mattias
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you're right if we're talking movie sets and such, but super 8 is often used in point and shoot situations where you often don't have time or space to get a "proper" light reading. and if you have a canon for example, it has a great light meter that you can actually rely on, even though i always lock the aperture manually after setting it automatically.Basstruc wrote:Why a user supposed to spend lot of money on telecine or print (since it's a negatic stock) would use the crappy internal meter of a super8 camera ? Never understood...
/matt
It seems logical that Kodak will replace S8 V 200T with the new V2 200T. What comes then, we don´t know. Money makes the world go around, right ? If Kodak think there's enough market, there will surely come more stocks in S8. What the INDUSTRY (read hollywood) demands plays a big role. Maybe we are the bastards (read amatuers) of the film industry. I have often wondered how many percents of S8 film sales WE (read the 8mm.filmshooting.com members) represent. In essence, how much what WE wish for dictates the future of S8... but we´ll probably never know.
In trying to make kodak make more S8 stocks we have made quite a few things! Various petitions, Roger's phonecall (!!) and now we even have a representative as a member on this board! I am not worried about the future. I have time for Kodak to decide, and meanwhile I have faith in Paul and his reperforating machine. I know it has the capacity to provide me with the all the filmstock I'll ever need. Any filmstock. Actually I´m thinking of throwing him some Technical Pan.
In trying to make kodak make more S8 stocks we have made quite a few things! Various petitions, Roger's phonecall (!!) and now we even have a representative as a member on this board! I am not worried about the future. I have time for Kodak to decide, and meanwhile I have faith in Paul and his reperforating machine. I know it has the capacity to provide me with the all the filmstock I'll ever need. Any filmstock. Actually I´m thinking of throwing him some Technical Pan.
VISION 2 500t 7218 Super-8
Hi
Just spoke to Kodak this morning. Date: 8/3/2004
Vision 500T Super-8 has got the green light.
The Rep apoligised for it taking 18 months to sort out.
Will have more news after 24/3/2004
Astro
Just spoke to Kodak this morning. Date: 8/3/2004
Vision 500T Super-8 has got the green light.
The Rep apoligised for it taking 18 months to sort out.
Will have more news after 24/3/2004
Astro
Question
Why would someone waste money on 500t super 8?
If your going to use the negative stocks why not go in 16mm?
It cost the same for super8 and 16mm negative stock with transfer.
I love k40. It's easy to use, cost very little, and looks great.
But if I were shooting negative stock I want all I can get for my money so I am going to use 16mm. It's got to be transfered anyway and cost the same for a better picture.
You can pick up a k3 on ebay for about $200. Thats a lot less than I paid for my beaulieu.
I will say I am currently a photography student and I will be going to filmschool in about 2 years but even the normal user can see that super8 negative film is a waste of time and money.
Just my thoughts
Anthony
Why would someone waste money on 500t super 8?
If your going to use the negative stocks why not go in 16mm?
It cost the same for super8 and 16mm negative stock with transfer.
I love k40. It's easy to use, cost very little, and looks great.
But if I were shooting negative stock I want all I can get for my money so I am going to use 16mm. It's got to be transfered anyway and cost the same for a better picture.
You can pick up a k3 on ebay for about $200. Thats a lot less than I paid for my beaulieu.
I will say I am currently a photography student and I will be going to filmschool in about 2 years but even the normal user can see that super8 negative film is a waste of time and money.
Just my thoughts
Anthony