PC for editing

[seekaee]

Here is where windows trouble starts: you install a windows application, and want to uninstall it afterwards. This is rather complicated, because most windows application are spread in the system on several places like cancer. Uninstall-applications don´t work always. You always keep with rests of the uninstalled program and with changed files, like comon used dll files etc. The system becomes more and more instable.

This was`more`of a problem in the past when Windows was still running DOS/FAT32 at it's core. windows thease days uses NT as it's kernel and is a much more stable system for storing files and in general is pretty dam hard to screw up. So long as you not logged on as sys adm , you can delete all the dill files you want and chances are you'll be able to reboot without a hickup. Even if you can't uninstall a program( which is rare for Windows thease days anyway) you can go do a roll back and set windows at an earlier date before the program was installed.

You also can plug of the power cable during working without beeing punished next time when starting the machine.

You can do the same with XP as well, even Win2000. But anything below that isn't a good idea..lol

[crimsonson]

What Macs never show are those strange blue screens, error messages and codes that nobody can understand, silly questions If you really want to delete or replace this or that dll file.

No they just 'Unexpectedly Quit'
How you suppose to troubleshoot that?

Most Mac program installations keep in one folder and can be uninstalled simply by deleting that folder.

Not true anymore. With OS X, there are prefrence files, libraries files in multiple subfolders, and many MAc users don't know - hidden files that can only be seen under a 'Root' account.

Uninstall-applications don´t work always.

Do you know or have seen the instructions on how to uninstall programs in OS X - specifically FCP ?
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=93150

This might have been true for pre OS X, but it is now nothing more but nostalgic fact. With Unix base, you are now subjected to hidden files, command codes, 'kernel panics, and all the trappings of modern OS.

You also can plug of the power cable during working without beeing punished next time when starting the machine.

Again incorrect. You can damage your permissions, thus cause instability. This is one of the biggest reasons of a corrupt firewire [failure to be recognize and mount].

[jean]

This was`more`of a problem in the past when Windows was still running DOS/FAT32 at it's core. windows thease days uses NT as it's kernel and is a much more stable system for storing files and in general is pretty dam hard to screw up.

In a perfect world, yes. In real world, it still is much like before, every software pollutes and clogs up your system. Uninstall may or may not take care to revert the system. XP is much more stable, (not to mention useable) and these days a pc running xp is absolutely capable of being used as a productive tool.

Yes, today you can do with a pc exactly what mac users were doing for the last 10 years

[Pedro]

never had any OS X crash since I have bought an iMac in 12/2002. Of course, applications can quit. My former win2k system even crashed during shut down very very oftenly, also after disc formatting and reinstallation.

Of course I do not practice hard power plug-off. But this had been shown by a seller in a hardware store. He worked with iMovie and then plugged off the power cord. After restart, he could continue working in iMovie where he had stopped. I saw it with my own eyes but would not practice it at home.

I know that many application make library entries in OSX and complex video application of course need quicktime components. But as far as I know and due to my expieriene, there is no problem when you delete the progam folder with the application (f.e. office pack, ie-explorer etc). If the files that remain in the system slow down the system... I don´t know, but they don´t lead to a corrupted system! I am impressed how nice the FCP installation is documented... never seen this with any Windows application!

troubleshooting OS X never had been neccessary for me. When I bought an old smokey iMac G3 for my daughter at ebay, I "troubleshooted" it simply by using the included recovery CD. After 10 minutes, it was working like new with 8.6. And the OSX installation I did recently on that old G3 run smoothly, too and did not take much time. So with system problems I first would run the recovery CD and see what happens. Even new installation of OSX is not a big thing, compared to the usual windows over night party.

Pedro

[S8 Booster]

I am certainly not going to spend a penny more on PCs.
I know them well from parallell operations over the past 15-20 years.
Many of my customers are companies with huge staffs and I know well the PC problems they struggle with - always.

Last year I tried to save some money on buyung a DELL lap for AV in field use + data aquistions use and it started the nice show of errors withing a forthnight as usual. (The data aquistions was not the proble except that it woas not cmatible with XP at first) After a few months it crashed totally. It had 3 trips to DELL´s UK repair service and 4 visits by a service engineer here - after several HD replacement/format/reinstalls/Screen driver replacement - it lasted for a week and I claimned a new. (I am usually too patient).

Got a newer replacement model whic ran nice for 14days before the nice little things Pedro describes started to play with me again.

I decided to dump it and buy a second hand MAC Powerbook G4 633 MHZ using the new OSX Panther - incredibly good & recommended. Aven though the Jaguar is extremely good the Jaguar is a big step further.
This MAC is incredibly fast and outperforms/challenges the 3+GHz Dell on big jobs and remains quite fast even when the disk fills up quite unlike the Dell.

The Dell used XP Personal. I run Virtual PC / XP PRO on the MAC on demand.

The XP feels like stone age compared to OSX.
I need a tool that works at my finger tips always - only MACs meets this requirement for my business.

To remove hidden files in OSX the good ol´ 68K Norton Fast Find goes right down the root and finds them and you can throw them directly in the bin from there. It is possible to configure of your own it to find whatever you want. It is so fast and effectice that it is basically no need to even organize your files. I will find and open files/apllications/folders - whatever - in no time and you can open it right from where FF finds it. Other direct actions: -> Thrash or Desktop. I do not bother organising my old files anymore. Just use FF to get them when I need them.

Click on the image to see details:

[crimsonson]

troubleshooting OS X never had been necessary for me.

My point was that people confuse personal experience as widespread fact. They are not. Your or my experience with one or two systems will never be the same, even if they are the exact same system used in the same manner. There are too many variables to make such conclusions.

For example...

I "troubleshooted" it simply by using the included recovery CD

Dells, IBMs, Gateway, all offer CD Recovery disks. This includes the application, drivers and OS. This is not exclusive to Apple.

don´t know, but they don´t lead to a corrupted system! I am impressed how nice the FCP installation is documented... never seen this with any Windows application!

That is because any decent PC application [even $5 sharewares] have an Uninstall executable included.
In fact, many Mac software company have begun such practice for OS X applications [they are called uninstall scripts].
Apple did it for FCP because many users complained that to properly uninstall FCP you need to do a complete reinstall of the OS. Apple posted the uninstall process. But this was after the fact.

After a few months it crashed totally. It had 3 trips to DELL´s UK repair service and 4 visits by a service engineer here

Have you ever had a visit from Apple? Neither of us and we have 8 G4s in-house. Apple's customer care is barren and difficult to use - even in an enterprise level - where companies spends millions for the right product and support.

To remove hidden files in OSX the good ol´

A 3rd party solution? This is no easier than cleaning your Registry in your PC.

This MAC is incredibly fast and outperforms/challenges the 3+GHz Dell on big jobs and remains quite fast

OK, now this is just silly. Please show me some pies and graphs.
According to a lot of independent sources [DMN, Mac Addict, etc]
even the fastest G4 will not outperform the fastest PC, especially on a similarly configured/costing machine.
With the G5 - that is a different story. It competes well with Xeon, but it does not outright outperforms it. It is competitive in some tasks and in some not [3D is still Macs biggest weakness].



Bottom line, each system has its own merit. Trying to argue that one is more stable or just plain 'better' is silly since there are too many variables involved.

I would love to have a G5, but I am under no illusion to say that G5 is the Holy Grail of computing.

Mac has Root, PC has a Registry
Mac has the Beach Ball of Death, PC has the Control Alt Delete
Mac has Kernel Panics, PC has The Blue Screen of Death
etc, etc.


Set a budget, pick an editing system, then pick a platform, edit.

Get over it guys.

[mercyboy]

as i posted earlier, i use both macs and pcs and was working on computers before most if not all of ya (with all due respect) even heard of a computer. user errors are by far the most common problem with either platform and neither is anywhere near what we should expect in 2004. i've owned many dozens of computers (no kidding) and have had a never-ending supply of entertaining hardware and software problems on both platforms. HOWEVER, if anybody thinks WINDOWS is equal to or better than the MACINTOSH platform for almost any task or in hardware design, the fact is you're high as a kite (and remember, that drug money is going to criminals and terrorists so knock it off, man!)

MACs have common hardware design and their programs have a common interface, and standards like that make things easier to understand. it's what i call the "spirit of computing." the things you learn doing one task with one program can then be applied to other tasks on other programs. Windows has certainly made some headway in that area, but not even close to the Mac and mostly only because software companies like Adobe have had such an impact as they've come to see the value in common elements. but on the whole, Windows program and hardware developers offer a hodge-podge of disparate interfaces and components and they should at least be required to include virtual asprin in the extras folders.

[seekaee]

[quote="mercyboy"] if anybody thinks WINDOWS is equal to or better than the MACINTOSH platform for almost any task or in hardware design, the fact is you're high as a kite (and remember, that drug money is going to criminals and terrorists so knock it off, man!)

Well I guess you can count all the people at PC world (who also happen to own Macworld) as "Druggies" from this article they did back in Oct on 64 bit computing.

Anyway, I'll cut to the chase and post what matters most when it comes to who has the more horsepower-- THE BENCHMARKS.

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,a ... g,8,00.asp

[mercyboy]

my friend, all of these posts are supposedly to answer the original question somebody asked about what platform computer to purchase to get some work done. benchmarks are certainly useful, but you can use different ones to paint very different pictures of the same computers. as a user of both platforms, the benchmark for me is what platform allows me to accomplish the greatest amount of high quality work in the least amount of time. if you get hung up on processor and bus speeds and the like, you're good for about five minutes of fame--about how long it will be before new hardware is released that nullify the results. so in my humble opinion, better to focus on workflow and ease of use. can't beat the Mac for that, though i completely agree with an earlier post about how the new unix-based Mac OS does have some rather Windowsesq attributes to it...and a very annoying permissions/user interface. (and don't forget, none other than the US Army switched over several of its critial operations from Windows to Mac, citing security concerns. i mean, if it's good for the Army, it's good for everybody!)

[crimsonson]

(and don't forget, none other than the US Army switched over several of its critial operations from Windows to Mac, citing security concerns. i mean, if it's good for the Army, it's good for everybody!)

Then tell Steve Jobs to switch his Pixar render farm back to Macs since it is currently Xeons.


Macs are easy to use but that is not the only factor in selecting a personal computer. If it was, 90% of the work would be Mac.

Again, blanket statements of which platform is better is silly.


Set a budget, pick the application, pick the platform, buy the hardware, work.

In that order.

[mercyboy]

i completely agree with "Set a budget, pick the application, pick the platform, buy the hardware, work" as mentioned above. but i'd add to it, "and then only upgrade when you absolutely have to because of either a quantum leap in technology or because you have actual paying work that demands it." (why do so many people get caught up in becoming unwitting beta testers just for the hell of it???)

ps: i wouldn't say blanket statements are silly when it comes to forum speak...not if the statements come from experience are are rational. it's up to the reader to then go out and perform due diligence. i mean, nobody who has a brain would really listen to any us without doing some homework, too, right?

[Pedro]

It´s much fun to see how sth can run off topic, my own posts included. But perhaps it is somehow neccessary or significant for that computer aspects.

First, because the Macs are in a much weaker comercial position compared with the huge IBM-PC world. When somebody says "computer", he automatically means "windows PC". One-party-government. I vote for at least two or more parties.

And second, inspite of the fact, that nearly any task can be done with a Mac at least as good as on a Windows PC, for my personal opinion and expierience, in most cases much better and more efficient.

At work, Macs are used for application with more data amount, in the grafic department and in the design dept, where they have a couple of G5 with big cinema displays. As far as I can think, there never had been any problem with that machines, different to the Windows network for the rest of us.

At home, I got tired to work long nights without any salary for Mr. Gates, therefore I thought about what to do. Linux or Mac? Linux would have been a lot of inicial work to install, understanding the system etc, Mac is just using, plug and play. As I don´t have too much time, I choosed Mac.

Now I am using it for anything, creative work, multimedia and office work and everything is running surprisingly smooth. That is my positive expierience. And I did not know what Mac is, one and a half years ago.

Pedro

[T-Scan]

i appreciate all the helpful info. although i will most likely stick with a PC and windows XP for many reasons. so far i know i need (or want) 3Ghz processor, two 80-120GB raid configured drives, gig of ram, 2 firewire ports, widows XP (pro?) ps2 mouse, DVD burner, Canopus video card (which one?) Vegas 4.0 or Premier. i would like to do it for under $1500, thats just my guesstimate so far. now one important factor.. if i bought a G-4 off the shelf with final cut added, would it have all the video cature/edit capabilites of the PC configuration i just mentioned? i'm not familiar with macs so from what i know today, upgrading, trouble shooting may be a problem.

[mattias]

was working on computers before most if not all of ya (with all due respect) even heard of a computer.

this is getting interesting. i'm too young to have worked with computers before people knew what computers were, even though i got my first in 1982 (yes, a 16k speccy), but i used the internet for the first time in 1988 (email and mud) and had a personal web page in 1993. to give you an idea of how early that was the list of all web sites out there was one html-doc only. i was number 300 something. ;-)

/matt

[seekaee]

i appreciate all the helpful info. although i will most likely stick with a PC and windows XP for many reasons. so far i know i need (or want) 3Ghz processor, two 80-120GB raid configured drives, gig of ram, 2 firewire ports, widows XP (pro?) ps2 mouse, DVD burner, Canopus video card (which one?) Vegas 4.0 or Premier. i would like to do it for under $1500, thats just my guesstimate so far

It's quite possible to get this set up for not only $1500 but maybe even under $1000 as well.Take a look at pricewatch.com to get a good estimate thease days.

now one important factor.. if i bought a G-4 off the shelf with final cut added, would it have all the video cature/edit capabilites of the PC configuration i just mentioned? i'm not familiar with macs so from what i know today, upgrading, trouble may be a problem.

Of the shelf, your looking at $1700 for a duel G4 and $1000 for FCP 4. You might just want to get a G5 as it's only around $100 bucks more for a 1.6 Gigger.