We are all in tears (this is where boohoo comes from?) .
But your reasoning is still as unsound as your spelling/typing. So please leave it there.
People amongst themselves decide if a law is broken or not? That is really new. Or very old, when there were no laws.
Am I famous? eBay sellers BLATANTLY using my stuff!
Moderator: Andreas Wideroe
Re: tears
What are you fond of philosophy? That sound and unsound reasoning stuff is crap. I beleive in many acedemic theories, but there is a limit to how the real world works. Get over it, I'll bet you've never taken any real risks in your life let alone owned a buisness. If you have or do you need to wake up. Bad spelling or not, copyright protection or infringement is bought with dollars not morality.aj wrote:We are all in tears (this is where boohoo comes from?) .
But your reasoning is still as unsound as your spelling/typing. So please leave it there.
People amongst themselves decide if a law is broken or not? That is really new. Or very old, when there were no laws.
-
Alex
But Super-8 man, wouldn't it benefit the most if everyone who looked at the auction saw you credited for your work and then checked out your website?
It looks to me like the wolf is guarding the super-8 chicken coup and you may have just deputized the wolf.
I think it might be wise to mention to the seller that you prefer it be known that your photos get mentioned for the good of all of those who would then check out your website as a result.
It looks to me like the wolf is guarding the super-8 chicken coup and you may have just deputized the wolf.
I think it might be wise to mention to the seller that you prefer it be known that your photos get mentioned for the good of all of those who would then check out your website as a result.
But would it be appropriate if the buyers could assume there is a direct link between the seller and the site. I think it's best to just say please don't plagarize using my sites material in your auctions. Seller would have to work for the money instead of just taking the shortcut to a description and listing. That's probably all this is about, the seller finding a quick and easy way to list without typing or taking pictures.
-
ericMartinJarvies
- Senior member
- Posts: 1274
- Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 2:26 am
- Location: cabo san lucas, bcs, mexico
- Contact:
it is a question of seperating the good people from the bad people. and all good people learn lessons ... every day. bad people do not, and they continue to cycle through the same problems, almost like clockwork. but a good person, will learn from their errors or mistakes, and if other good people out there takethe time to explain to them the error of their way, then the process is all that much better. but good people that may be victims, can respond to such in bad ways like bad people do, and so they too need to learn a lesson from the situaton. it seems like almost every can, does, and should learn lessons, no matter they be the perpitrator or the victim. such i life. i've certainly learned a fair share of lessons from the folks on this site 
it is truly hard to know the 'intentions' of a person without first speaking with them, and allowing enough communication so that you may have a reasonable understanding, with which you can act or state your position or explain the error or fault, or provide praise should that be the case. but to do exclude any person from this process, is only demonstrating the lesson YOU need to learn ... which is communication first, understanding second, disclosing your position third, and finding mutual resolve forth. every one is differant, and unless a person has deliberatly attacked you with reason, then you may see their intentions(perhaps not yet understand them, they too perhaps do not understand) and act accoordingly. the toughest part about it all is not getting sucked into the vacume, or infected with the germ, wherein you see the one person reaching all time lows, and you make a decision to join them, hence two people making very poor decisions, thus resulting in an argument without merit ... jsut anger.
the written word over the generations has been construed and miscontrued. i beleive now in our time, with the ability to write words in realtime as we do here on pages like these, we will understand that in order to convey the absolute truest intentons of any such words any of us may right, wherein those people who read them take from them what we intended when we wrote them in the first place, we must first learn to understand those to whom we are writing our words. without this, we shall continue to be a small, barberous people(lawrence of arabia-peter o'tool).
it is truly hard to know the 'intentions' of a person without first speaking with them, and allowing enough communication so that you may have a reasonable understanding, with which you can act or state your position or explain the error or fault, or provide praise should that be the case. but to do exclude any person from this process, is only demonstrating the lesson YOU need to learn ... which is communication first, understanding second, disclosing your position third, and finding mutual resolve forth. every one is differant, and unless a person has deliberatly attacked you with reason, then you may see their intentions(perhaps not yet understand them, they too perhaps do not understand) and act accoordingly. the toughest part about it all is not getting sucked into the vacume, or infected with the germ, wherein you see the one person reaching all time lows, and you make a decision to join them, hence two people making very poor decisions, thus resulting in an argument without merit ... jsut anger.
the written word over the generations has been construed and miscontrued. i beleive now in our time, with the ability to write words in realtime as we do here on pages like these, we will understand that in order to convey the absolute truest intentons of any such words any of us may right, wherein those people who read them take from them what we intended when we wrote them in the first place, we must first learn to understand those to whom we are writing our words. without this, we shall continue to be a small, barberous people(lawrence of arabia-peter o'tool).
eric martin jarvies
#7 avenido jarvies
pueblo viejo
cabo san lucas, baja california sur. mexico
cp 23410
044 624 141 9661
#7 avenido jarvies
pueblo viejo
cabo san lucas, baja california sur. mexico
cp 23410
044 624 141 9661
Imitation is the greatest form of flatteryFirst of all, this talk about "idiots" is ridiculous. This is a community here of super8 enthusiasts. We're here for a purpose, so it would be wise to check the agression at the proverbial front door and treat all members with some respect.
If somebody starts a thread it is for a reason, and in the case of this one a common and a legitimate one. The author was illustrating a point in something that seems to happen all the time, and brought it to our attention. For our consideration. For us to consider. Get it? It is obvious that his post is not a rallying cry of any sort, just a statement of fact.
As for how to deal with this issue: I have started adding my userid to the photos of items I list -- ie 'watermarking' them. I can't protect the words, and eventhough I'm a writer... I'm not too concerned if someone decides they need to copy my words verbatim for an item they are listing. As super8man said, life is too short.
I would also add that, yes, the common and polite thing to do would be to contact the author of those words/photos and ask permission to use them. This is often not the case, and this is what is more upsetting than the actual plagiarism. As -- and I am going to pick up on the philosophy motif here -- Nietzsche said: "One often contradicts an opinion when what is uncongenial is really the tone in which it was conveyed."
If somebody starts a thread it is for a reason, and in the case of this one a common and a legitimate one. The author was illustrating a point in something that seems to happen all the time, and brought it to our attention. For our consideration. For us to consider. Get it? It is obvious that his post is not a rallying cry of any sort, just a statement of fact.
As for how to deal with this issue: I have started adding my userid to the photos of items I list -- ie 'watermarking' them. I can't protect the words, and eventhough I'm a writer... I'm not too concerned if someone decides they need to copy my words verbatim for an item they are listing. As super8man said, life is too short.
I would also add that, yes, the common and polite thing to do would be to contact the author of those words/photos and ask permission to use them. This is often not the case, and this is what is more upsetting than the actual plagiarism. As -- and I am going to pick up on the philosophy motif here -- Nietzsche said: "One often contradicts an opinion when what is uncongenial is really the tone in which it was conveyed."
_____________________________
If life were easy and not so fast, I wouldn't think about the past.
--Phish
If life were easy and not so fast, I wouldn't think about the past.
--Phish
-
ericMartinJarvies
- Senior member
- Posts: 1274
- Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 2:26 am
- Location: cabo san lucas, bcs, mexico
- Contact:
yep.
well, no matter what, we all have some form of influence over one another here on these types of sites, so why not try to make good influence and productive and posative resolve, instead of other, and all too common solution(or lack thereof). there are alot of young people in the world, it is best if we can learn from kind wise people, instead of angry foolish people. regarding plagiarism, we all essentially are raised under this, meaning monkey see monkey do, learn by example, etc. if we did not copy what already is, we would not be able to effectievly relates and communicate. so holding onto things we create is just downright foolish, it is like taking a picture and claiming it belongs to you, whereas without the camera or the scene you would not have it in the first place. so it was given to you to begin with, and when you decide not to keep giving it, then personally, i have found that is the cause to must frustration, sadness and anger. certainly for someone to take the work of another and claim it as his own is not acceptable by any standard, because it is not the truth, nor is it the reality of the situation. it takes some people time to feel confident enough about themselves to give proper credit to others. when i was much younger, i found a really cool peom in a song, and i then wrote it and gave it to my girlfriend and claimed it as my own. hehe ... about a year later, she had purchased this album and found those same words. i was so busted, and even worse i was so ashamed of myself i felt like crawling in a hole and covering it with a large stone. i learned a valuable lesson in plagiarism and humility at that point. and naturally, i did it because i wanted to impress her, and obviously someone else was able to say, or had already said what i was feeling ... i felt like those were my words, but sadly they did not flow from me, and i resorted to plagiarism, which then led to lying, then followed by an abrupt denial, then a total cherry red faced state of humiliation. i'm glad i can laugh about that now ...and am even happeir that is in my past. but the bottom line is, the only real person i hurt was myself, it was not intened to hurt anyone else. so when people obrrow things like i did, or like what this person did, i doubt they are truly thinking it through ... because had i thought it through, and considered what i would have to contend with as a result, i would have never done it in the first place.
but today, i take and borrow words all the time, i have to ... if i learn a technique or valuable information, the only way i can effectively share is is by doing so correctly. sometimes it is not warranted that i disclose the sourse of the info, but if asked, then yes, i share that info. a perfect example is with legal contracts ... instead of writing my own, i take well writen contract and take from them what i need. naturally, i am not going ot list that i took certain terms, clauses, etc. for a certain named contract or agreement, what would be the point? if people have 'legitimate' copyright, i respect those even if i do not agree with them ... but if it is just bullshit copyright stuff that serves only to show how ignorant the person was who actually claimed copyright, i do nto give it a second thought, especially when t owuld never involve that person in a million years. i think we each knows what is acceptable and what is not ... we feel it in the bottom of our guts, and our minds will not let us rest easy if we have indeed effected someone as a result of our actions, or if we did so with the intentions of being a plagiarist, like with my borrowed poem signed by eric, then it will bit us in the ass, and we will most likely never play with that fire agian. hopefully. i'm just thankful most of us grow out of that. imagine if we were still doing what we did 5 years ago, or 10 years ago, or longer? yikes. that is one of the reasons i have never understood politics. the people want someone that is well rounded and of learned behavior who can handle situations, yet when an opponant runs a smear campaign about what happened 10 years ago to that person, and then the public eats it up and crucifies the poor sap, no one ever bothers to consider their own humiliating experiences which they lived through, and grew past and beyond ot become the people they are today. instead, selective memory come into play, and they fail to consider all the foolishness they engaged in their earlier years, and so boastfully point fingers at another and pass judgement like they have not fault of their own. our cultures have for so long lived in denial of the past, and have tried to hide it so they can claim ot have lived a perfect life, people today are not allowed to naturally grow into erfection, instead they must learn to lie and hide who they have been, in order to be. it's downright madness. as long as a person is not doing it today, and has no plans of doing it in the future, or if what the person did in the past, is a natural thing(like getting a blow job, or giving one, even if you are the leader of the free world) and is perfectly acceptable to him and to any active participant, why should it matter? i for one would much rather have someone representing my interests who i know has been there and learned from his mistakes, instead of a person who is claiming to have never made any, or makes no comment on them in the first place. this is why i purchased my first s8mm film camera, so i could learn to tell visual stories about things i beleive are worth putting out there for others to ponder ... not to force down their throut, put to simply shed new or differant light upon the subject. i think a film camera is able to convey this message beter then a digital camera, just somethng about the way it looks and feels. i saw that jack nicholson movie last night, the one where he dates young woman and then has a heart problem and ends up coming to terms with himself and falling on love with a woman his own age ... i enjoyed the entire movie, and then the credits rolled ont othe screen and they were digital. i felt cheated ... they looked totally out of place, and made me think about it. the credits were like a made for tv type credit roll. oh well, i will make sure i plagiarise the old-school system when i make my film credits ... i hope no one gets mad at me for that
well, no matter what, we all have some form of influence over one another here on these types of sites, so why not try to make good influence and productive and posative resolve, instead of other, and all too common solution(or lack thereof). there are alot of young people in the world, it is best if we can learn from kind wise people, instead of angry foolish people. regarding plagiarism, we all essentially are raised under this, meaning monkey see monkey do, learn by example, etc. if we did not copy what already is, we would not be able to effectievly relates and communicate. so holding onto things we create is just downright foolish, it is like taking a picture and claiming it belongs to you, whereas without the camera or the scene you would not have it in the first place. so it was given to you to begin with, and when you decide not to keep giving it, then personally, i have found that is the cause to must frustration, sadness and anger. certainly for someone to take the work of another and claim it as his own is not acceptable by any standard, because it is not the truth, nor is it the reality of the situation. it takes some people time to feel confident enough about themselves to give proper credit to others. when i was much younger, i found a really cool peom in a song, and i then wrote it and gave it to my girlfriend and claimed it as my own. hehe ... about a year later, she had purchased this album and found those same words. i was so busted, and even worse i was so ashamed of myself i felt like crawling in a hole and covering it with a large stone. i learned a valuable lesson in plagiarism and humility at that point. and naturally, i did it because i wanted to impress her, and obviously someone else was able to say, or had already said what i was feeling ... i felt like those were my words, but sadly they did not flow from me, and i resorted to plagiarism, which then led to lying, then followed by an abrupt denial, then a total cherry red faced state of humiliation. i'm glad i can laugh about that now ...and am even happeir that is in my past. but the bottom line is, the only real person i hurt was myself, it was not intened to hurt anyone else. so when people obrrow things like i did, or like what this person did, i doubt they are truly thinking it through ... because had i thought it through, and considered what i would have to contend with as a result, i would have never done it in the first place.
but today, i take and borrow words all the time, i have to ... if i learn a technique or valuable information, the only way i can effectively share is is by doing so correctly. sometimes it is not warranted that i disclose the sourse of the info, but if asked, then yes, i share that info. a perfect example is with legal contracts ... instead of writing my own, i take well writen contract and take from them what i need. naturally, i am not going ot list that i took certain terms, clauses, etc. for a certain named contract or agreement, what would be the point? if people have 'legitimate' copyright, i respect those even if i do not agree with them ... but if it is just bullshit copyright stuff that serves only to show how ignorant the person was who actually claimed copyright, i do nto give it a second thought, especially when t owuld never involve that person in a million years. i think we each knows what is acceptable and what is not ... we feel it in the bottom of our guts, and our minds will not let us rest easy if we have indeed effected someone as a result of our actions, or if we did so with the intentions of being a plagiarist, like with my borrowed poem signed by eric, then it will bit us in the ass, and we will most likely never play with that fire agian. hopefully. i'm just thankful most of us grow out of that. imagine if we were still doing what we did 5 years ago, or 10 years ago, or longer? yikes. that is one of the reasons i have never understood politics. the people want someone that is well rounded and of learned behavior who can handle situations, yet when an opponant runs a smear campaign about what happened 10 years ago to that person, and then the public eats it up and crucifies the poor sap, no one ever bothers to consider their own humiliating experiences which they lived through, and grew past and beyond ot become the people they are today. instead, selective memory come into play, and they fail to consider all the foolishness they engaged in their earlier years, and so boastfully point fingers at another and pass judgement like they have not fault of their own. our cultures have for so long lived in denial of the past, and have tried to hide it so they can claim ot have lived a perfect life, people today are not allowed to naturally grow into erfection, instead they must learn to lie and hide who they have been, in order to be. it's downright madness. as long as a person is not doing it today, and has no plans of doing it in the future, or if what the person did in the past, is a natural thing(like getting a blow job, or giving one, even if you are the leader of the free world) and is perfectly acceptable to him and to any active participant, why should it matter? i for one would much rather have someone representing my interests who i know has been there and learned from his mistakes, instead of a person who is claiming to have never made any, or makes no comment on them in the first place. this is why i purchased my first s8mm film camera, so i could learn to tell visual stories about things i beleive are worth putting out there for others to ponder ... not to force down their throut, put to simply shed new or differant light upon the subject. i think a film camera is able to convey this message beter then a digital camera, just somethng about the way it looks and feels. i saw that jack nicholson movie last night, the one where he dates young woman and then has a heart problem and ends up coming to terms with himself and falling on love with a woman his own age ... i enjoyed the entire movie, and then the credits rolled ont othe screen and they were digital. i felt cheated ... they looked totally out of place, and made me think about it. the credits were like a made for tv type credit roll. oh well, i will make sure i plagiarise the old-school system when i make my film credits ... i hope no one gets mad at me for that
eric martin jarvies
#7 avenido jarvies
pueblo viejo
cabo san lucas, baja california sur. mexico
cp 23410
044 624 141 9661
#7 avenido jarvies
pueblo viejo
cabo san lucas, baja california sur. mexico
cp 23410
044 624 141 9661
Moose
A moose once bit my sister.
"I'm the master of low expectations. I'm also not very analytical. You know I don't spend a lot of time thinking about myself, about why I do things."â€â€George W. Bush, June 4, 2003
zzzzz
Imitation is the greatest form of flattery...
-
Alex
Probably the most confusing aspect to me was Super-8 man being more confortable if one of us contacted the plagerist instead of himself doing it.
No matter what our own opinion of the seller, I think we'd all support Super-8 man emailing the person and just saying hello. Perhaps a friendly email like, "Hello, I noticed you used my photos and descriptions in your ad?".
One thing is for sure, if you use a photograph of an item and the buyer notices a blemish or scratch or something "different" when they receive the item, they can get the seller in trouble with ebay. I suppose if your photo looks worse than what the auction winner actually gets, a seller probably won't have a problem, but if the auction item looks worse or different from the picture, (and no mention has been made that the picture is not the actual item), that is something ebay can crack down on.
I still think there is a way for the seller to credit Super-8 man without it coming off as a endorsement of the sellers auction, but maybe that is trickier than it seems to pull off.
No matter what our own opinion of the seller, I think we'd all support Super-8 man emailing the person and just saying hello. Perhaps a friendly email like, "Hello, I noticed you used my photos and descriptions in your ad?".
One thing is for sure, if you use a photograph of an item and the buyer notices a blemish or scratch or something "different" when they receive the item, they can get the seller in trouble with ebay. I suppose if your photo looks worse than what the auction winner actually gets, a seller probably won't have a problem, but if the auction item looks worse or different from the picture, (and no mention has been made that the picture is not the actual item), that is something ebay can crack down on.
I still think there is a way for the seller to credit Super-8 man without it coming off as a endorsement of the sellers auction, but maybe that is trickier than it seems to pull off.
You're right and this is precisely the point: sell what one has. Listing something that has been photographed by someone else is...well, plain foolish and wrong.
We all demonstrate some measure of suspicion, for lack of a better word, when we bid on ebay items. And we do this, because, or even perhaps in spite of the fact that there are ebay users who mis-represent what they are indeed selling.
Obviously, it is our responsibility to ensure what we are buying is in fact what we are buying. So the age-old adage of "buyer beware" would seem to hold up.
And sure, of course we would support super8man contacting his plagiarizer. 100%. But for what purpose? He has already said he has better things to do.
And what would one expect from such a plagiarizer? Would a response in the form of something like "Ooops. I'm sorry. I'm at fault here." be forthcoming? Chances are no. I would in fact expect the complete opposite.
disjecta thanks for the compliment. I have once question though:
How does one treat a moose bite?
We all demonstrate some measure of suspicion, for lack of a better word, when we bid on ebay items. And we do this, because, or even perhaps in spite of the fact that there are ebay users who mis-represent what they are indeed selling.
Obviously, it is our responsibility to ensure what we are buying is in fact what we are buying. So the age-old adage of "buyer beware" would seem to hold up.
And sure, of course we would support super8man contacting his plagiarizer. 100%. But for what purpose? He has already said he has better things to do.
And what would one expect from such a plagiarizer? Would a response in the form of something like "Ooops. I'm sorry. I'm at fault here." be forthcoming? Chances are no. I would in fact expect the complete opposite.
disjecta thanks for the compliment. I have once question though:
How does one treat a moose bite?
_____________________________
If life were easy and not so fast, I wouldn't think about the past.
--Phish
If life were easy and not so fast, I wouldn't think about the past.
--Phish
-
super8man
- Senior member
- Posts: 3980
- Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 11:51 pm
- Real name: Michael Nyberg
- Location: The Golden State
- Contact:
OK, my last reply on this subject... Generally, I have experienced this before and found the seller wil NOT change anything. Worse, in this day of ULTRA paranoia, I may awaken some crazy beast of an email flame war or whatever.
No, my main point in posting the link was to show that here is yet another example, AMONG THE THOUSANDS OUT THERE, of someone trying to sell Thing A (Serial No. 1241247846) with a picture of Thing A (Serial No. 55876287356). Buyer beware.
In the great scheme of things, you could argue it is more efficient. Of course, this particular example is highly confusing. Does he have the box, does it come with the Bogen mini tripod, how about the DECLIC handle?
In 35mm camera land and digital camera land, items are usually bought and sold with only a Nikon (or whatever) official website photo and a straight copy of their stats. No one complains then. And this is for USED items, let alone new items.
So, let's just agree to realize that all of us here on the board are a little higher up the old pyramid triangle of Self Actualization than other folks out there.
Gotta run, time to check out my ebay watching page!
Cheers,
m
No, my main point in posting the link was to show that here is yet another example, AMONG THE THOUSANDS OUT THERE, of someone trying to sell Thing A (Serial No. 1241247846) with a picture of Thing A (Serial No. 55876287356). Buyer beware.
In the great scheme of things, you could argue it is more efficient. Of course, this particular example is highly confusing. Does he have the box, does it come with the Bogen mini tripod, how about the DECLIC handle?
In 35mm camera land and digital camera land, items are usually bought and sold with only a Nikon (or whatever) official website photo and a straight copy of their stats. No one complains then. And this is for USED items, let alone new items.
So, let's just agree to realize that all of us here on the board are a little higher up the old pyramid triangle of Self Actualization than other folks out there.
Gotta run, time to check out my ebay watching page!
Cheers,
m
My website - check it out...
http://super8man.filmshooting.com/
http://super8man.filmshooting.com/