s8 projector.. which to buy..?

[beenie]

Hi,

Looking to buy my 1st s8 projector, have canon 1014xls, can you suggest what would be good and how much i should pay? my local camera shop has a few eumig(spell??) for around 60ukp?

thanks,

[paul]

Which kind of Eumig? Let us know so we can make a proper judgement about it's price. Go back and check the type first.

It will also depend on what you want to do with the projector. If you plan to do double system sound later on it would be best to buy a Bauer from the T five or six hundred series or an Elmo GS 1200. If you don't need sound or intend to use magnetic striping facilities you can choose from a broader range of projectors

Personally I would always choose for a projector with a 150 Watts Lamp in it.

Eumigs are very decent projectors. I don't think I would pay a 60 pounds for it, unless it is one of the more sophisticated ones. The smaller projectors of Eumig, are nice machines none the less, but not nice enough (for me) to pay 60 pounds.
I have this one (100 Watts):

Like it a lot. It's big fun. Worth around 20 pounds. I have more and better projectors.

[Guest]

Please excuse if not right for me to ask here, but on subject of best projector I was told that for the broadest range of usefulness, one should purchase a super-8 sound projector that has variable speed control, so as to eliminate flicker when transferring film to digital. True?

[jchanbr]

Hi,

About the question of eumig projectors.
I got an Eumig 824 Sonomatic 2 tracks (12v-100w lamp), how good is this projector? And its value (like new with leather hard case, manual, acessories, mic, etc)? Any idea? :roll:

Thanks

jchanbr

[wahiba]

I find the Eumig 607D fine for general use - but any more than 30 quid (UKP) for a second hand one and you are being done, unless it has the f1.0 lense then and then the extra 30 is worth it.

As for flicker. It seems to be less of a problem in 50Hz countries than 60HZ countries. Most camcorders seem to have a low 'shutter' speed around 1/50 second. On a three bladed silent projector at 18fps this amounts to 54 images a second and seems to match in well with the camcorder. I do not know what happens with a projector at 24 fps that has a three bladed shutter.

Ideally at 24 fps a two bladed shutter should be used to give 48 images/s, which with minimal tweaking might make 25 fps and 50 images/s to match the camera.

:lol: Of course if the lottery or ernie have come up buy a cinetel (30k+) or moviestuff (2k) set up.

[tim]

In the light of recent comments on the prices charged by dealers for second-hand projector, the following notes might be useful.
I run a small business (not in cine!), and occasionally sell second-hand equipment. It is usually necessary to pay £10 to £20 for a second-hand projector. For resale, this would need to be cleaned and checked: in most countries this would involve an electrical safety test. Except in some Eumig designs, it is often necessary to replace a belt. There is an implied guarantee, so service may be needed. There are overheads to be covered (rent on shop, for example). Dealers are not charitable institutions, so a profit must be made otherwise they won't be in business long. Finally, there is some sort of sales tax or VAT. Using typical UK costs:

Cost of projector ... £15
Cleaning and checking, 1 h ... £10
Belt replacement on half the items £4
PAT (safety) test ... £3
Guarantee provision, say ... £5
_____
Sub total £37
Mark-up for o'heads and profit, 35% £13
_____
Net price £50
VAT @ 17.5 % £9
_____
MINIMUM SELLING PRICE £59
So don't knock the dealers, many enthusiasts couldn't carry on filming without them!

[Pedro]

For my opinion, having a top of the range camera like yours, I would strickly exlude that so-called decent projectors. THe main concern is sharpness and brightness of the result. Sound projectors usually are better equipped as silent ones. A halogen lamp of 150 W or brighter is a must nowadays, if you take an Eumig that only has 80 or 100W, you only will earn laughter when sreening films to people, who are used to see bright xenon video beamer pictures.
So I would suggest to look for a Elmo GS1200. It has a 200 W lamp and comes with an extraordinary good lens and precise film gate for sharp and bright projections. The price range is already "payable". THe projector has a pitch dial for fine framerate adjustments AND AN INBUILT SYNCHRONIZER for double system sound!!! You can shoot live sound films using silent stock very easyly! The synchronizer also allows easy external crystal sync, f.e. to sync up to soundtrack from PC or CD etc.

A better film gate has only the Beaulieu projector, but it is very costy.
One of those both would be my choice. Both can be converted to high power lamp technology, providing a 4 times brighter image than halogen and 2 times brighter than xenon.

Pedro

[beenie]

its seems your pointing me in the direction of a VERY expensive projector.

I've got a good camera cos thats the important part... currently I just want a projector so I can watch the films I shoot back and do some some very basic transfer to DV. I'm not after sound or anything special, I'm not gonna use it to show anything I shoot..

I've had a good look on the net and I'm surprised no-one has done a matrix for super8 projectors.. features / cost etc etc...

I've seen this kind of thing on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 1382493182

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 1383003687

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 1382414097

they all seem to go for around 25-50ukp....

So please can you reccomend a 'budget' projector.

Thanks,

beenie.

[S8 Booster]

Although Pedros expert advice is correct you may not need a "high-end" projector to view the good results from the C1014XL-S

I use 2 projectors, one is the Bauer T610 and the other is an Eumig S910 HQ Sound.

Although the Bauer is supposed to be the "Hot Rod" of the two the Eumig (and other Eumigs I have used too) projects images that are at least equal to or better than the Bauer. The images look brighter and better to me.

I do not know all Eumigs but I have a good impression of those I have used. The only two things I do not like with my model are that both reels are placed on one shaft which means that the film passes a fixed guide on transport. May scratch film at backwind if dusty and it is a little noisy (fan).

However, images projected are bright and very good at normal projecting distance (4-5 meters) despite its lower lamp wattage.

R

[hoe]

I wouldn't have thought £60 was too much for a projector from a dealer, which has been cleaned, tested, and under guarantee. You could definately just pick one up from Ebay for £10-20, but you also need to add about £10 p&p, I recently bought a Prinz Magnon for about £2 on ebay and it works fine but that's the chance you take. If you're just looking for a budget projector simply to view your footage then I wouldn't be too fussy about brands/models etc unless you want special features. The point being made about the sound projectors was that usually they are better all-round, even if you don't want to play sound, as they will probably be newer. And sometimes you can pick one up for not much more than the regular silent projectors on ebay. Just ask qs from the buyer on condition of the belt/availability of bulbs etc, make sure leads etc included. Any of the Chinon or Eumig projectors should be ok and at a budget price. But obviously the brighter the bulb for the projector the better. Good luck.

[Pedro]

for any recommendation,considering camera costs and costs for film per minute, for me the projector is a part of the chain that has the same importance as all the other parts. It´s not very logical, to pay €12 for each 2.5 minutes of un-edited film, pay for a hi-quality medium for reducing this quality afterwards using a low range projector or even destroying it with scratching etc.
a projector is a one-time investment, like a camera, no costs afterwards.
However, the Bauer T620, T502, T525 are good as well, even having some technical drawbacks regarding the gate construction and sound head lifetime. THey are VERY silent and careful with the film. Better as Bauer, in the same price range, is Braun Visacustic. THis is the only mid class projector with lamp sided pressure plate,providing constant sharpness. It just comes with the typical video transfer framerates like 25 fps and 16,666 fps, besides having the standard 18/24 fps. And of course, the 150 W lamp.
I´ve had several 100 W projectors, among them 2 Eumig. 100 W is ALWAYS significant dimmer than 150 W. 150 W provides technically the brightest possible image for S8, which is not feasible with 100 W. THe 200 W Elmo bulb only makes a better distribution of brightness. 250 W even may be dimmer than 150 W, because the wire in the lamp is too big for the S8 gate.
So, if Elmo GS1200 is too expensive, I would at least stick to a ELmo ST1200 (ST800 is 100 W) or to Braun VIsacustic 1000 or 2000 or to a Bauer T502.

Note that ONLY projection can show everything what´s inside the S8 image, all details, all colors, the complete contrast range. THerefore a good projector is important. Any transfer to electronic medias cuts about the half of the original quality level, in all terms. So only a projector can show you what is really in your films.

Pedro

[souper8]

I have used cheap projectors for a long time and the projected images were soft and dim. Last year, I finally upgraded to a Beaulieu 708 EL and was blown away. The images now are so bright and the color seems to be more accurate. The Schneider 1.1 lens is so sharp and contrasty. I can now see all of the little details on screen. Even though I transfer my final footage to video for some of my projects, it's good to evaluate what is on the film. It is totally worth spending the extra money.

souper8

[konton]

If you are looking to spend some big money on a good projector, I have a Bauer T610 with monitoring screen and Pedro's P1008 Synchronizer for sale. The montioring screen is great when you just want to watch your film rather than showing it to a large group of people. And for synching audio the projector is perfect as it has a microcomputer to help in the process. Also the P1008 synchronizer will allow it to run at crystal speeds, or in sync with 1K external bursts. Contact me at webmaster@ super8mm.org for more information

[paco]

I also have an eumig 824, but without box and manual. The cost was 60 dollars in auction (Spain). It works well and nice but the sound is bad, I don't know as cleaning the sound machine. Could you copy me the manual?.
Saudades amigo

About the question of eumig projectors.
I got an Eumig 824 Sonomatic 2 tracks (12v-100w lamp), how good is this projector? And its value (like new with leather hard case, manual, acessories, mic, etc)? Any idea? :roll:

[Guest]

Paco:
Use a cotton stick and pure alcohol to clean the sound head section. Just open the front cover of the projector and determine where the sound head is. It must be UNDER the light/gate/lens section, exactly 18 frames under the gate. enter into the film path with the wet cotton stick for several times until it comes out clean and not brown. Do the same thing at the capstan presser roll (rubber roll) to optimize wow and flutter.
Afterwards clean the complete film chanel. You will be surprized how the sound will become better, even better than standard cassette tape.
Never use hard tools such as screw drivers, only cotton sticks!

SAUDADES AMIGO!
Pedro