What is the best DAT recorder for sync sound

[Guest]

I`m trying to do sync sound on a beaulieau 400zm2 and 7008 pro but i do not know what is the not so expensive an best way to go for sound recording , any advice is apreciated and what and how woul i deal with it with final cut pro Im thinking of the DA-P1 dat recorder

[Kurt8]

Does it have to be DAT? MD would get the job done as well. And of course you'll have to have the camera crystal synced if you want to be 100% accurate. I have also heard of some people doing it without a crystal controlled camera and making the speed adjustments in FCP but I can't comment on that.

Kurt

[mattias]

I have also heard of some people doing it without a crystal controlled camera and making the speed adjustments in FCP but I can't comment on that.

if the cuts are short you don't usually need to adjust the speed, and if you do it's easy to do. for my last super 8 short i did all the syncing up of 25 minutes of wild synced material, approximately 30 setups and 80 takes total, in less than two hours. i used a canon 814e, which runs at an incredibly steady speed though. might be harder if you have a clockwork camera.

/matt

[Steve P.]

I thought the problem with minidisc (for this use) was that you could NOT upload a recording from the deck to a computer.

From minidisc.org:

“a considerable number of visitors are under the misconception that Minidisc equipment can be used for recording live audio material and subsequently uploading this audio easily onto a computer. This is unfortunately not the case; Sony has steadfastly refused to provide an easy computer upload path for Minidisc audio, …”

http://www.minidisc.org/uploader_table.html

Maybe you can do it and the keyword is “easily”???

[Kurt8]

Upload? I don't see what the problem is. All you do is copy the material to the hard drive via an optical cable which keeps everything digital. Okay, most portable units don't have an optical out, but the home decks are quite cheap or maybe you could borrow one to do the transfer. And a soundcard with digital in/out also isn't an issue today. I played around with DAT for years and just fine MD so much easier at a lower price with audio that sounds almost as good.

Kurt

[Lucas Lightfeat]

From minidisc.org:

“a considerable number of visitors are under the misconception that Minidisc equipment can be used for recording live audio material and subsequently uploading this audio easily onto a computer. This is unfortunately not the case; Sony has steadfastly refused to provide an easy computer upload path for Minidisc audio, …”

http://www.minidisc.org/uploader_table.html

This is in reference to Sony's NetMD system, with which one can download MP3s from the computer to minidisc in seconds, but only upload from MD to MP3 if it was originally downloaded as an MP3. Regarding live audio, it is easy to use the MD's analogue out into the computer's analogue audio in, with no problems and excellent results. I still prefer DAT, because they generally have a record level knob, which is a really tangible advantage over MD, but MD is a cheap alternative.

Lucas

[Nigel]

This is about as "Best" as you can get for DAT.......

http://www.fostex.com/index2.asp?file=p ... t_dvd/pd4m

Good Luck

[Steve P.]

Thanks! That feature (missing) had really been puzzling me.

[Nick]

Check this thing out.

http://www.aaton.com/products/sound/cantar/index.php

Cheers,
N

[peterjcf]

I`m trying to do sync sound on a beaulieau 400zm2 and 7008 pro but i do not know what is the not so expensive an best way to go for sound recording , any advice is apreciated and what and how woul i deal with it with final cut pro Im thinking of the DA-P1 dat recorder

Here's my suggestions:

1. Best and cheapest alternatives for Super-8 project:
- Use pro-grade C-cassette recorder. (marantz, sony etc.)
You don't have a reason to overlook these, since there are crystal models that have Dolby C noise reduction, XLR connectors and phantom power and cost used abt. 150-350 usd/eur. Better than consumer MD with flimsy 3.5 plugs and noisy mic input AND noisy audio out.
Also, nowadays, you can get very good C-cassette decks for a song.

For maybe 16mm and upwards:

2. Mid-class:

- If you want to buy a new unit, look for Marantz CompactFlash recorders. Cost abt. 850, so considerably less expensive than DA-P1 at 1600.

- It doesn't hurt to ask your local movie equipment hire how much they would charge on low season from film student. Industry standard is Tascam PD-4. It has timecode generator, so when used with timecode slate (that good-looking denecke slate with red led numbers running) you can sync directly from dailies.

3. Go pro, Go Nagra!

- 1/4" tape rocks! Add dolby SR module, and you are in par (equipment-wise) with hollywood's top movie sound recordists.

4. Rob a bank (remember: sizeable) and buy a Cantar.

- Very promising, and looks better than anything else in this universe
http://www.aaton.com/

Other things to consider:
- if you have only one mic, record same signal to both tracks, but another on -10 dB level.
By that way, you have very good safety net on those occasions when normal level track gets distorted due to too loud sounds.
This also helps to reduce noise on analog units - you dont' need so much safety headroom on main channel.

-read some good books on subject. I would recommend:
- Holman, Tomlinson: Sound for Film and Television, Second Edition
- Rose, Jay: Producing Great Sound for Digital Video

These books are actually useful.

my 02

Regards

Petri

[mattias]

Better than consumer MD with flimsy 3.5 plugs and noisy mic input AND noisy audio out.

bullshit. i agree on the ankwardness of tiny unbalanced inputs, but the mic amps on every md model i've tried have been completely "silent", and the audio out while not perfect at least very close.

/matt

[danpuddick]

Yea I have to agree with mattias. The minidisc inputs are pretty damn quiet. If you want balanced ins there are loads of battey powered mixers/mic pre amps and DI boxes out there out there to avaoid using the minidisc preamp.. which on mine is pretty great considering the price and size (the first time I recorded some stereo street sound on it I was blown away)

There's lots of snobery against minidisc as it is a consumer format ---- just like a certain film gauge people use around here... but for the bucks it blows away all competition... mine coast less than £100

Also you can avoid using the audio out of the MD buy finding a unit (usually a Home hifi) one that has a Dig out. Just send this into your soundcard and there it is.


Personally I'm more concerned about the noise of the damn camera!

PS I used to have a Tascam Dat for mastering music i made and it was a big pain in the arse... something went wrong with the heads and it was out of warrantee..... It would have cost tonnes to fix it.... Theres so many moving parts to go wrong in my opinion....maybe they've improved them now but if I had a big sack of cash waiting to be blown I would go for something solid state that recorded WAVs with a nice USB tranfer on it.

[peterjcf]

Better than consumer MD with flimsy 3.5 plugs and noisy mic input AND noisy audio out.

bullshit. i agree on the ankwardness of tiny unbalanced inputs, but the mic amps on every md model i've tried have been completely "silent", and the audio out while not perfect at least very close.

/matt

Dear Mattias,

Since you have recent positive experiences with MD, I think it would be good if you could give this forum's readers some advice on this matter.

Namely, what are those models [that you have tested] that have completely silent mic input and very close audio out.

Also, what mini/midi stereo sets have both MD and digital out, and how much they add to total cost of this recording method.

For me, it's 2 years too late - but I guess you could help others to avoid some very nasty surprises.

BR

Petri

[mattias]

Dear Mattias,

ah, i was rude so you responded overly polite. point taken. sorry. lets move on. :-)

Namely, what are those models [that you have tested] that have completely silent mic input and very close audio out.

as i've mentioned several times before on this forum, i use sharp recorders. search the archives for more info. regarding digital out i don't know.

/matt

[danpuddick]

it was me that said about the digital outs. I must admit... I don't own an MD with a digital out.. but have a handy friend who does.... he then uses his hifi CDR recorder to make a copy that I can use from my CD rom drive. I suppose I cheat a bit. Both of these are hifi seperates I'm not sure which models....

I guess I'm lucky to have a hifi freak as a friend.

I have two minidisc portable recorders - a Sony MZ R700 and an MZ R707... i'd say that the recording quality is almost identical....

I had a look online and the only MD units that have digital out do seem to be hifi seperates or the high end portables (proffesional)... have a look on http://www.minidisc.org/equipment_browser.html to see which one has what.