Processing FOMAPAN 100 - 2nd exposure

[wahiba]

By experiment I found out that is does not process as a negative like Pan-X so I have decided to bite the bullet and reverse process. I have a number of regular-8 cameras I want to try out.

While I am quite happy with the overall process, I have done it before, the one problem I have is the second exposure. All the information sheets seem a bit vague on this point.

When I acquired my LOMO in the 70s the suggested method was to place the spiral in a white bowl filled with water and using a flood light bulb, I think it was about 300W held 30cm/1' away, expose the spiral with the film in for about 1 minute on each side. Anyhow it worked.

Questions

1 is the above about right for FOMAPAN?

2 how critical is the timing (I believe it is not)

3 how critical is the lamp wattage/type (do not know)

As I have no intention of unwinding 50' film to expose it to light the above method is the one I will use.



I
O 300w ?

30cm


I I
I ------------------- I
I I I I
I ------------------- I
I_______________I Spiral in white bowl and water

[aj]

I develop Fomapan R100 using the Foma developing kit. Works very well but it takes some time. I am intending to go to 25 degrees Celsius to reduce times a bit.

I make the second exposure by switching on a bulb of 500 watt and holding the spiral by its centerstick and supporting it from underneath with one finger (in rubber glove). I hold the spiral like 45 degrees with the horizon at about 30cm from the bulb. I rotate the spiral slowly and also flip it a number of times. Total about 60 seconds. Very much like the instructions of the kit. I suspect you should not go too close to the bulb otherwise the glove might melt or sag.

I use Fomapan R100 DS8 after splitting it into S8 and spooling it into Kaccema cartridges. From the 30 meter DS8 one can also refill 200 feet cartrdiges with 100 feet.

[popman]

:?:
where do you buy Kaccema cartridges?

[christoph]

By experiment I found out that is does not process as a negative like Pan-X so I have decided to bite the bullet and reverse process. I have a number of regular-8 cameras I want to try out.

hmm.. i'm not sure what you mean exactly with "does not process as negative"... i'm near certain that it will, but maybe you mean it doesn't look as good? keep in mind that neg processing changes the exposure index of the film.. you loose up to one stock.. also, if you're not happy with the results use a different developer. what did you use?


as for the re-expose thing, your described method sounds to be on the safe side... the point is, you really can't overexpose at this point.

from the kodak processing instructions:

Reexposure:
The second exposure should be sufficient to render the residual silver salts fully developable. Optimum reexposure is about 8600 Lux-sec (800 tcs[edit: this should read "fcs" for footcadle seconds]). This will be provided by a 10-second exposure to a 60-watt lamp at 31 to 46 cm (12 to 13 in.).
The amount of reexposure is not critical. However excessive exposure (in the order of 10 times) may cause a slight and undesirable increase in density. which will be most noticeable in the highlights areas of the projected image. Too Iittle reexposure (in the order of 1 /100 of the optimum) tends to reduce the maximum density objectionably. Exposure levels should be checked by trial to ascertain that no noticeable change in picture quality accompanies a two- to five-times change In reexposure in either direction.
Reexposure can be applied at any point from the latter part of the clearing treatment to the early part of the second developer. If reexposure is given in the clearing bath, no additional time of contact with that bath should be required, if given while the film is in the second developer, sufficient time must be allowed subsequently tor the developer to complete its work.

hope that helps
++ christoph ++

[aj]

:?:
where do you buy Kaccema cartridges?

Well, I have two and a half at the moment. I found them in a junkbox in a photographica shop in Amsterdam. Sometimes they are found inside old cameras from Eastern-Europe I was told.

I found out that you can buy/order them (used ones) from Olex in the Oekraine. He finds them in cameras too, I think. This is his webpage http://www.geocities.com/russiancamera/ ... manual.htm. Only shipping and moneytransfer costs are very considerable. I did not bother to order.

[wahiba]

Thanks - the 500W for about a minute seems to fit in with what I remember of the spiral in a white bowl method. Seems like a good start point.

I think the Kodak 60W bulb possibly refers to a continuous process machine where the light is much closer to the film.

When I develipoed FOMAPAN as a negative it came out very dark. I used the same settings for Pan X and it was fine.

I use 30cm test strips, loaded in a changing bag and run through the camera twice. i can do two strips at a time in a Minolta Developing tank. Unfortunately the the spiral is black so I will have to take it out for a second exposure.

[fritzcarraldo]

I develop Fomapan with my own kit, i mix all the chemistry and i have perfect results using two 100watt lamps in 1m from the spiral in about 3min. both sides, 1 and half minute for each side of spiral if you use the light only in one side, the other might be a little darker, i had that problem sometimes.

[walter]

Hi David!
I use and process Fomapan R100 in 2x8, DS8 and 16mm myselfe. For reversal processing I use Fomadon LQR in a 50ft Lomo spiral tank. I get quite good results on the following terms (10m film):

All solutions on 20 Celsius!
1..prewash........water................2min
2..1.development..96ml.Fomadon.........10,5min
..................800ml.water..........30sec.move
3..wash...........5x1000ml.water.......10min
4..bleach.........6g.kaliumdichromat...6min
..................5ml.sulphuracid.98%..30sec.move
..................995ml.water
5..wash...........5x1000ml.water.......5min
6..clearing.......50g.natriumsulfit....5min
..................1000ml.water.........30sec.move
7..wash...........3x1000ml.water.......3min
8..exposure.......on.spiral.in.white...3min
..................bassin.2x100W.80cm...continious.turn
..................filled.with.water
9..2.development..the.bath.from.1st....4,5min
..................development
10.wash...........5x1000ml.water.......5min
11.fixing.........167ml.Fomafix........5min
..................833ml.water..........30sec.move
12.wash...........10x1000ml.water......20min
13.dry.................................8h

Do not worry about the intensive wash sessions, therefore I can use my solutions 5 times. I do use the developing solution 2 times, you can watch the second development when lights are on and stop when density is sufficient. I know I waste much time but save much money too - costs for developing 1 Fomapan R100 (10m) is EUR 1,60.

Expose the film when in a clear spiral (LOMO) in a white bassin filled with clear water. I use two bulbs (2x100W) so I can even avoid shaddows of my arms. Turn the spiral continiously.

Kaccema (cyrillic - kasseta) S-8 cartridges works fine when you supply the new film on a core 25mm diameter 7mm high. This extra ring prevents the unexposed film from getting jammed.

Latest prices Fomapan R100 2X8 and DS8 (10m) bought directly fron the CZ dealer is EUR 7,50
I sell it at EUR 10,-- (postage included) in small quantities to friends in EUR Europe

Walter Brunner
Hauptplatz 31
A 3902 Vitis
Austria
bwbrunner@utanet.at

[christoph]

Do not worry about the intensive wash sessions, therefore I can use my solutions 5 times. I do use the developing solution 2 times, you can watch the second development when lights are on and stop when density is sufficient.

hmm.. using a wash between steps is a good idea, but you certainly overdo it... 1min wash between each step is enough and lets you reuse the chemicals for many rolls (actually till they are exhausted).. and it's also more economic.
i usually develop up to 6 rolls in 1liter D-19 stock, adjusting time by 30secs ever other roll.

Expose the film when in a clear spiral (LOMO) in a white bassin filled with clear water. I use two bulbs (2x100W) so I can even avoid shaddows of my arms. Turn the spiral continiously.

again, you're going a step too far, if you turn the spiral, one bulb is just fine. but then, if it helps you to feel safe go for it ;)

Thanks - the 500W for about a minute seems to fit in with what I remember of the spiral in a white bowl method. Seems like a good start point.

well, it's definitely way too much, but as said you can't overexpose at this point.. all that could happen is that you loose a tiny bit of highlight detail as described in the kodak notes above.
a 500W halogen will output about 10'000 lumen.. if we assume it would go into all directions uniformly (no reflector!) this means you'd get about 800 footcandle at one foot distance.. so, given kodak is roughly right abut their 800fcs recommandation (and one would hope they are ;) you should expose it exactly for 1 (one) second. make that 5 seconds because the film is not fully exposed to light in the spiral, but also keep in mind that a reflector easily doubles light output.
sorry for the math (again ;)

I think the Kodak 60W bulb possibly refers to a continuous process machine where the light is much closer to the film.

it refers to one foot distance, but prolly with all the light hitting the film directly.

When I develipoed FOMAPAN as a negative it came out very dark. I used the same settings for Pan X and it was fine.

this sounds like a combination of overexposure and/or over development.

for all those interested in more info, check:
http://www.kodak.com/US/plugins/acrobat ... /h2415.pdf

++ christoph ++

[wahiba]

Hi

thanks again. I like the idea of the 100W bulbs.

Are these normal mains voltage? Not photofloods.

Are they clear or perl?

[fritzcarraldo]

Well everyone has it's own method, apparently, me and Walter use similar technics, the normal 2X100watt lamps in 1 meter distance for 3min. in both sides of spiral in a transparent glass container full of water.

Well, i have perfect results in my development, i make all the development kit, an alternative formula to Foma.

I also use water from the rain in development, i only use normal water to wash, all the chemistry i mix with rain water.

This way the free of energy water doesn't affect the chemistry performance.

We all have different techincs, and all eork, i remember my first develompent, i used the chemistry almost instinctively and i got surpising results, a mix of sepia with strange stains, i really aprreciate the film i made from it.

Well, keep filming