Hi there,
I really shouldn't say this here, but I'm working on a xenon kit for Super 8 projectors. It's not a simple matter of straping a brighter lamp into a machine though! It's very hard to iluminate such a small gate aperture with a high wattage lamp as the filament is too large to be able to focus down onto it. Halogen lamps are simple, but produce large amounts of heat which will distort the film and melt your projector! I have tried a 250W in a Eumig S940 (150W) and it makes very little diference due to the focal length of the lamp. It also fouls the workings slightly. If you are going to use a discharge lamp, you either need a lamp which can instantly strike to full power (xenon) or a separate dowser shutter which would stop the light. Otherwise when you start showing your film the first minute will gradually get brighter!!!! Also most small discharge lamps will not re-strike until they have cooled down. In order to acheive a "hot" re-strike, special lamps are needed plus a striking voltage of around 25000V All this boils down to the fact that it's not cheap unfortunatly. There are a very limited number of suitable lamps for this sort of thing. If I was to say that a 100W xenon lamp costs over £200.00 and the ballast to run it maybe three and a half times that much again, one starts to see why these things are so costly! I have yet to find the best machine to modify for this purpose, any ideas about units with enough room to accomodate a slightly larger diameter lamp would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Ben
Always looking for a brighter light!
Gimme a brighter projector!
Moderator: Andreas Wideroe
Hi Ben,
i use a Elmo GS 1200 XENON super 8 projector and i am loking around for a spare XENON bulb. But it is hard to get. Elmo in Germany (Düsseldorf & "Soligor-ACI" at Leienfelden) told me a new one would cost Euros 849,--. (Thank good my XENON bulb is still working). Have you any idea to get a cheaper XENON bulb ?
i use a Elmo GS 1200 XENON super 8 projector and i am loking around for a spare XENON bulb. But it is hard to get. Elmo in Germany (Düsseldorf & "Soligor-ACI" at Leienfelden) told me a new one would cost Euros 849,--. (Thank good my XENON bulb is still working). Have you any idea to get a cheaper XENON bulb ?
Dear Synthnut,
I converted my Elmo gs1200 halogen in a discharge lamp unit. Now it's perfectly working. The right lamp for this conversion is the Osram HTI W32 - 250 w.
W32 means the focus of the lamp is at 32mm from the border.
The elmo gs1200 is perfect for this job. It has a mechanism to close the film gate without to switch off the lamp.
IMPORTANT: the triacetate film doesn't support more than 1000/1200 lux. Over this value the film began a degeneration for the overheating.
The HTI lamp is able to supply over 1500 lux, si you need a three blades shutter with blade at 53° and an anti-overheating filter.
Look the photos here (now the power box is painted):
http://www.8mm.filmshooting.com/scripts ... ctors/hti3
http://www.8mm.filmshooting.com/scripts ... ctors/hti2
http://www.8mm.filmshooting.com/scripts ... ctors/hti1
http://www.8mm.filmshooting.com/scripts ... ctors/hti4
I converted my Elmo gs1200 halogen in a discharge lamp unit. Now it's perfectly working. The right lamp for this conversion is the Osram HTI W32 - 250 w.
W32 means the focus of the lamp is at 32mm from the border.
The elmo gs1200 is perfect for this job. It has a mechanism to close the film gate without to switch off the lamp.
IMPORTANT: the triacetate film doesn't support more than 1000/1200 lux. Over this value the film began a degeneration for the overheating.
The HTI lamp is able to supply over 1500 lux, si you need a three blades shutter with blade at 53° and an anti-overheating filter.
Look the photos here (now the power box is painted):
http://www.8mm.filmshooting.com/scripts ... ctors/hti3
http://www.8mm.filmshooting.com/scripts ... ctors/hti2
http://www.8mm.filmshooting.com/scripts ... ctors/hti1
http://www.8mm.filmshooting.com/scripts ... ctors/hti4
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synthnut
- Posts: 203
- Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2002 10:04 pm
- Real name: Ben Marshall
- Location: Surrey
- Contact:
Hi Ugo,
If only I could find/afford a GS1200 I would be a happy man! (If have one available or you know of any going then let me know.) I'm still a little worried about the lamp running on whilst the projector is stopped though. Its a lot of heat to lose in a small space. I was looking to use an Osram XBO 180W xenon, but the HTI might be easier. They are still a little oversize for the average projector though, limiting choice to a Beaulieu or Elmo GS1200 really. If only a lamp manufacturer would come out with a 150W HTI replacement for a standard 50mm dichroic! I know Sylvania has developed a 35W version, but it has a built in diffuser lens...
Still dreaming of brighter lights....
Ben
If only I could find/afford a GS1200 I would be a happy man! (If have one available or you know of any going then let me know.) I'm still a little worried about the lamp running on whilst the projector is stopped though. Its a lot of heat to lose in a small space. I was looking to use an Osram XBO 180W xenon, but the HTI might be easier. They are still a little oversize for the average projector though, limiting choice to a Beaulieu or Elmo GS1200 really. If only a lamp manufacturer would come out with a 150W HTI replacement for a standard 50mm dichroic! I know Sylvania has developed a 35W version, but it has a built in diffuser lens...
Still dreaming of brighter lights....
Ben
The XBO lamp series has not the dicroic mirror. It's a big problem to find the right mirror for the super8 gate. For this reason the HTI is the easier solution: it has the mirror!
Do you project the Kodachrome or professional film by Derann or Classic Home Cinema?
The XBO lamps are fine for the professional film. The "point of color" (this is an other value more precise than the "color temperature") of the XBO is right for the professional copies. The HTI has a point of color right for the Kodachrome. Of course this is a very fussy valuation!
About the problem you told it's necessary to switch on the lamp before to play the film: in the GS 1200 there is the mechanism ables to do it! In the halogen version too!
bye
Do you project the Kodachrome or professional film by Derann or Classic Home Cinema?
The XBO lamps are fine for the professional film. The "point of color" (this is an other value more precise than the "color temperature") of the XBO is right for the professional copies. The HTI has a point of color right for the Kodachrome. Of course this is a very fussy valuation!
About the problem you told it's necessary to switch on the lamp before to play the film: in the GS 1200 there is the mechanism ables to do it! In the halogen version too!
bye
So, if one had a four bladed shutter one could project at 12 fps with little flicker. I only add this thought as the 10 fps off my little digital camera does not flicker as much as I thought it would.
An idea for more light at 24/25 fps. Use a four bladed shutter at half speed. Then the blacked out areas could be smaller and so more light. Possibly the same with a six bladed shutter for 16/18 fps.
I think there is a snag to this - but worth a thought :?
An idea for more light at 24/25 fps. Use a four bladed shutter at half speed. Then the blacked out areas could be smaller and so more light. Possibly the same with a six bladed shutter for 16/18 fps.
I think there is a snag to this - but worth a thought :?
New web site and this is cine page http://www.picsntech.co.uk/cine.html
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John Clancy
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:17 am
- Location: London
- Contact:
Synthnut, Perry's Movies have a GS-1200 for sale at £1,195. Assuming they still have it this one looks to be in excellent condition. It is not the Xenon version so has the standard 200w ESC lamp (which Derann have just had re-manufactured so no problems with supplies any longer).
Classic Home Cinema have a spare Xenon lamp for the GS-1200 Xenon at £595. However, Steven Sigel (with the help of a loan Xenon lamp from Perry's Movies) has had the lamp cloned in America with the estimated cost of a new lamp being around $200. Although, I wouldn't fancy being the first to try one of these lamps in a GS-1200.
There are also GS-1200's around converted to take the 16mm arc lamps running from a separate power pack. I have one of these and it puts out an extremely bright picture. Couple this to the Elmo F1.0 lens (the best Super 8 lens ever produced) and a two-bladed shutter and you'll be alright for a 'Scope picture up to 24ft across.
Classic Home Cinema have a spare Xenon lamp for the GS-1200 Xenon at £595. However, Steven Sigel (with the help of a loan Xenon lamp from Perry's Movies) has had the lamp cloned in America with the estimated cost of a new lamp being around $200. Although, I wouldn't fancy being the first to try one of these lamps in a GS-1200.
There are also GS-1200's around converted to take the 16mm arc lamps running from a separate power pack. I have one of these and it puts out an extremely bright picture. Couple this to the Elmo F1.0 lens (the best Super 8 lens ever produced) and a two-bladed shutter and you'll be alright for a 'Scope picture up to 24ft across.
British Film Collectors Convention web site http://www.bfcc.biz
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synthnut
- Posts: 203
- Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2002 10:04 pm
- Real name: Ben Marshall
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Hi again,
Just for information, the Osram XBO series includes several lamps with dichroic reflectors. They are identified by the R suffix and include both 100W and 180W versions The 180 datasheet can be found here:
http://www.osram.com/pdf/service_corner ... 80_45e.pdf
This is the same diameter as the HTI lamp too (HTI 250 W/32) but is 8.5mm or so longer. The focal length is also longer (45mm) which is a problem I think. The HTI is quoted as having a field diameter of 5mm at 32mm distance. I've yet to play with either of these, but I have been experimenting with a 150W HTI lamp and metal reflector for experimenting. These lamps are quite affordable and run on cheap ballasts. The problem so far has been acheiving a small enough illumination field as the arc gap is a little on the large side I think. I really want to be able to use more common projectors than the Elmo so that more people could enjoy nice bright images! (much as I'd love to get hold of A GS1200 soon!) Hey-ho...
Still seeking a brighter light....!
Ben
Just for information, the Osram XBO series includes several lamps with dichroic reflectors. They are identified by the R suffix and include both 100W and 180W versions The 180 datasheet can be found here:
http://www.osram.com/pdf/service_corner ... 80_45e.pdf
This is the same diameter as the HTI lamp too (HTI 250 W/32) but is 8.5mm or so longer. The focal length is also longer (45mm) which is a problem I think. The HTI is quoted as having a field diameter of 5mm at 32mm distance. I've yet to play with either of these, but I have been experimenting with a 150W HTI lamp and metal reflector for experimenting. These lamps are quite affordable and run on cheap ballasts. The problem so far has been acheiving a small enough illumination field as the arc gap is a little on the large side I think. I really want to be able to use more common projectors than the Elmo so that more people could enjoy nice bright images! (much as I'd love to get hold of A GS1200 soon!) Hey-ho...
Still seeking a brighter light....!
Ben
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FILM-THURSO
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- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:57 am
- Contact:
Congratulations Synthnut!!! I didn't know this lamp! It's very interesting!
I think it's possible to use it for the super 8. In the Fumeo 9119 (or 9120) and in the Elmo GS1200 there is place enough to put this lamp inside.
Probaly it gives same brightness on the screen than the HTI, but the XBO works for 500 h, vs 250 h. of the HTI.
bye
I think it's possible to use it for the super 8. In the Fumeo 9119 (or 9120) and in the Elmo GS1200 there is place enough to put this lamp inside.
Probaly it gives same brightness on the screen than the HTI, but the XBO works for 500 h, vs 250 h. of the HTI.
bye
Look here!
http://catalog.myosram.com/srvc/z_myosr ... I1NjMyNzc=
this other one has the SAME dimension of the HTI 250. The problem is this lamp avaliables 1/3 more of light than the HTI, and I fear it's dangerous for the film. Note that the brightness of the HTI isn't use at the TOP! I had to mount a shutter with blades at 53° (the original had 50° blades) and two filter anti overheating.
http://catalog.myosram.com/srvc/z_myosr ... I1NjMyNzc=
this other one has the SAME dimension of the HTI 250. The problem is this lamp avaliables 1/3 more of light than the HTI, and I fear it's dangerous for the film. Note that the brightness of the HTI isn't use at the TOP! I had to mount a shutter with blades at 53° (the original had 50° blades) and two filter anti overheating.
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synthnut
- Posts: 203
- Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2002 10:04 pm
- Real name: Ben Marshall
- Location: Surrey
- Contact:
Hi,
Ugo, the url you posted does not seem to work for me? For me I like the facilities that the xenon lamps offer. Quick strike to full power time, ability to run at reduced power and the slightly higher colour temperature make the white seem brighter too. (just like the white than white washing podew technique!). It's just a pity that the PSU's are so expensive!!! I'm looking to make an add-on dowser that is controlled by the projectors lamp circuit or from a change-over box if you have two machines for the full cinema experience!!! This is why the idea of two GS1200's is a little daunting. I can by perhaps 20 halogen 16mm projectors or 4 xenon 16mm projectors second hand for the same price...
Always looking for a brighter light...
Ben
Ugo, the url you posted does not seem to work for me? For me I like the facilities that the xenon lamps offer. Quick strike to full power time, ability to run at reduced power and the slightly higher colour temperature make the white seem brighter too. (just like the white than white washing podew technique!). It's just a pity that the PSU's are so expensive!!! I'm looking to make an add-on dowser that is controlled by the projectors lamp circuit or from a change-over box if you have two machines for the full cinema experience!!! This is why the idea of two GS1200's is a little daunting. I can by perhaps 20 halogen 16mm projectors or 4 xenon 16mm projectors second hand for the same price...
Always looking for a brighter light...
Ben
Incredible: I don't find the link in english; in Osram Brasil only! 8O
http://www.osram.com.br/produtos/fotopt ... index.html
http://www.osram.com.br/produtos/fotopt ... index.html