What is the Super 8, State of the Union?

[FilmsUP]

Feel free to go take this discussion in any direction you like.

What I am wondering about is are we making any headway in consistent Kodachrome processing? Last time I got film back, the rolls were plagued with the dreaded blue spots.

Other areas of concern for me, are jittery cartridges and cameras with poor registration.

On the up side it seems like it's a buyers market now on Ebay.

[super8man]

Ebay is pretty good these days. Prices are down from what I observed in the 2000's...top camera go for what seems like half of those good ol values. We used to fetch $400 for perfect 814 XL examples (silent) but not these days!

Ebay is always fickle - I got my Canon310XLS BNIB for $25 while two weeks later the silent version of the same camera also looking BNIB went for $77. Go figure.

THe Nizo S801Macro fetched 225 while the S801 got 175...seems pretty good right now if you ask me. Though I do wish there was more selection...

Not many quality viewers though. I have not been searching for projectors lately so not on top of that...shipping is always a killer!

Happy hunting!

Cheers,
Michael

[Old Uncle Barry]

Just received four rolls back from Switzerland and they are perfect.OK,it took two weeks but it was certainly worth the wait.
Shot in 'scope at 24fps using a seperate lightmeter produced cracking results.The camera? A wind-up Russian Quartz.

[calgodot]

I see the State of the Super8 Union as somewhat healthy.

There is certainly a growing interest in the format. Two years ago I would have said the growth would all be done in a year or so. But cameras still sell on eBay, although thankfully for far less money. I hear from the film school wads I know that many of the schools are picking up Super8 gear and re-emphasizing film (along with the growing emphasis on DV: it's 16mm that's suffering in film schools apparently). More and more young filmmakers are coming to Super8 as their first foray into film, often after years of playing with the family camcorder.

Where the Union suffers in in essential services. The aforementioned K40 problem is a grievous one, as it is the most popular (and cheapest) Super8 stock. I'm nervous enough about sending my film to Kansas or Switzerland; stories of blue spots and missing reels literally make a certain part of my body pucker with fear. I noticed recently that Pro8mm in Burbank is processing K40, though they call it an "experimental process" and won't guarantee results, I consider this an even gamble with Dwayne's/Kodak.

The paucity of services for Super8 troubles me, given the seeming increae in its popularity. It may lead to a rise in entrepeneurial efforts like those of Roger, Paul and Eric, who have seen an absence of services and chosen to do something about it (rather than whine endlessly like I do - although to my credit I'll probably end up giving them all my money).

So I see the State of the S8 Union as clouded but hopeful. Nothing lasts forever, of course, but Super8 has outlived numerous predictions of its demise. With projects like Paul Cotto's afoot, the format may even be able to survive a decline in support from Kodak (the only thing that could really kill it).

[FILM-THURSO]

The Kodak blue spot is an evil problem which they tried to tell me was the fault of my cameras. I said to the man, "Are you trying to tell me that 13 cameras of different ages bought at different times from different sources having seen different uses are all going to yield the same fault?" after I exposed two cartridges kodak had provided for tests. I never got to see the footage even after the director offerred to send the film to me. He claimed that even my newest camera (bought new) had given the same problem on both stocks (K40 and Vision 200). He tried to tell me that it was a light leak. Oh yeah right- the only problem I've ever seen from a camera was a blue line. On examination of the gate a tiny lump was found, a moulding flaw, it was removed and the line dissappeared. There is talk of static charge due to temperature change (possible I guess) but I haven't used films in conditions of temerature extreme changes so it can't be that. It does look like light static flash but to my experience in printing it also looks like a residue print. Something bleachy on a roller in the processing system giving it a repeat effect but clears itself now and then. You know the little code tabs you get back with your film, they have a bit of other peoples film on them. Now if it were a static flash in my camera how likely is it that the next film attatched to mine in the tank from another user has shown exactly the same fault. I think that is very much a chance in a million. yet I had 7 tabs all showing the same problem. Is it residue in the system or is the static flash occurring as the films are taken into the processing tanks.
Whatever the case it seems to me that it is Kodak who are at fault and don't want admit it perhaps feeling that their time in the business means they know best.
I once advised a chain cinema operator to multiplex one of their locations or face competition. They laughed and said their was no demand for multiplex in that area. Two years down the road and Warner and UCI both announced they intended to enter that town. Warner won and the operator who didnn't listen gave up their location after struggling for 4 years. Sometimes experience can blind wisdom!
In all this is a big shame because Kodak have always been the biggest failing in one of their best inventions. How can they expect to sell their stock if they can't admit and fix faults.
Remember the Doctor Who TV serries- the BBC never gave it the budget it deserved and eventually axed the show yet it has a massive following that has great potential for major sci-fi movie versions.
Kodak need to waken up and realise how important that little K40 stock is as a production tool. In my use it's the work-horse stock whilst other films are used in more specialist conditions and it is for many if not all 8mm users, our first experience of shooting film. If we get a bad experience first time we won't be coming back will we?

[skyliner]

They will never admit to anything, probably due to fear of a class action.
That, however, doesn't mean that the fault shouldn't be fixed.
1, This didn't used to happen, now it does, defacto something HAS changed.
2, We know it's not the cameras for the reasons above.
3, It could be a cartridge flaw, a change in the plastic used, something like that (how old are the mold patterns now?)
4, It could be the processing in Switzerland.

The solution is simple analysis, does this happen with other labs or only with the Swiss.
Cameras are eliminated 2 to go.
Independent lab users please report-------
S.

[S8 Booster]

Guess I filmed several hundred S8 films over 20+ years, all Swizz processed and maybe 1 or 2 had a blue flash possibly less than a second right at the start of the film. Never caused any problem for me.

If there were 2 in total it was one in each of the 2 past decades, one of them in the past 2-3 years.

R

[super8man]

All this talk of the blue flash reminds me: I had a Sankyou LXL255 Macro camera as my first one...shot many a good roll on it. One roll came back with a FLASH every scene change. Could not figure it out while watching. Finally, I looked at the film and sure enough, every time I stopped the camera, the gate must have stayed open creating a single clear frame. The effect was quite nice considering I was filming my sailing in the Gulf Islands (BC, Canada). Just my thoughts...

As for my Kodak developing. Have not had any serious issues...a couple of times I have noticed a blue line like an emulsion scratch not caused by me but that's it. Keeping my fingers crossed. And let's not bad mouth Kodak too much...you know what they say, or at least what I say to my 3-year-old...Don't bite the hand that feeds you!

Cheers,
m

[S8 Booster]

Which reminds me of a friend who had a blue flash problem with a Beaulieu 6008. It appeared as if the trigger contact flash - small sparks appears when a electrical motorcurcuit is opened (quite common) actually leaked onto the film (not common) every time the filming was stopped.

This caused a blue flash on the film every time the film filming stopped.

The cam was sent to Beaulieu 2 or 3 times to correct it but they never managed to sort out the problem.

Have also seen the partially open shutter at stop variant for one cam.

R

[Arnie]

AARGGHH! Blue spots are so annoying! My newest film, Underground Slavedrivers had some scenes nearly ruined by a bunch of those blue spots. Plus, the scenes were kind of dark, so when I tried to brighten them up, the blue spots got brighter and brighter...
I've heard both that they're "water spots" from processing, and that they may be the static problem. There's plenty of examples of them in Underground Slavedrivers unfortunately.
Dwaynes processed my film, and I used several different cameras- so I doubt it could have been the static thing.
One thing I did notice, and I think I posted a topic on this before, was that the blue spots were awfully bad in rolls processed in April, but by June, rolls had hardly any sign of blue spots.

[Nigel]

I tend to agree with the few people that run into lack of services. It is getting better all the time though.

I have a date with Flying Spot to transfer some S8 and S16 on the 10th of this month.

Forde Labs has had a delay with their machine but they are pressing ahead and should be up in another month with the 200T.

So things are getting better all the time. Now, if we could only get Kodak to give a true D stock like the 100D.

As for the eBay problem--It is killing me. I am trying to sell my Aaton again and I am damn near giving it away and no one will bid.

Good Luck

[Santo]

I've been taking a good look at that 100D and have changed my opinion on it since last time it came up on this board -- it would be a fantastic addition and a very easy thing to impliment by Kodak. Actually, much, much more welcome than another Vision stock for both casual and professional users.

But I'll keep my thumbs down to the 7240. If Kodak intro'd 100d in super 8 and developed a micro-fine grained 100t as well (with good colour), they could drop k40 and 7240 and, after some initial complaining by some, super 8 would emerge far stronger and long-term viable for both pro and amateur shooting.

You're "giving away" your Aaton and nobody's bidding? What's giveaway prices on an cool camera like that? Wow, you put that together with some of these Cook lenses I've been reading about and it must be an incredible combo.

[mattias]

Have also seen the partially open shutter at stop variant for one cam.

but that's a *good* thing. i hate logging and editing when there are no flash frames. i even insert them manually now and then when i use my canon 814, which annoyingly stops with the shutter closed, by pointing the camera towards a light source and click away a single frame.

/matt

[S8 Booster]

Well, the death of some gives birth to others

Good point though.

The problem in the old days with the sound film was that a blank frame at every stop would play havoc with the sound stripe if you had to cut out a frame or 2 and add a splice. That is for us projection dummies though.

For home movies and sometimes other projects partial in camera editing was good. Now since the sound is 18 frames ahead of the scene imagine what a frame of 2 + a splice may do to the sound track :?:
Yowza, yowza, yowza I know it is possible to copy the sound off the mag stripe and sort of record it back byt(e) never the less.

R

[Nigel]

I was selling my Aaton for No Reserve with S16 lens for 10,500USD. It has a good serial number and it is a solid camera. The Cooke glass is great. I have rented some of their lenses in the past.

It is still for sale if anyone is interested.

Good Luck

PS--Think 100D!!