Warning: Newbe WorkPrinterXP user in the house. Questions...

[tmoceri]

Hello All,

I'm a video/film hobbiest recently turned "side business to justify the cost". I'm armed and dangerous with a WP-XP (as of a couple weeks). I'll be capturing friends and family film over the coming months and once the process is perfected I'll open for bizness.

First off, did the customary set it up in a hurry and try a capture and even in a rush (with some late phone calls to Rodger) I was able to get some awesome captures, thanks Rodger awesome work!

Now, to tweak the quality. I've been lurking for a while and reading many posts (including the "best practices" post). I'm setting up a permanent rig with my recent "sweet" eBay find... a Sony 3CCD TRV900 w/ 12x for $300! It works great except it does not capture to tape only firewire (and so the low price tag) but who needs tape .

Now for the next challenge. I know Rodger (and others) suggest a raid setup to be able to optimally capture. But, I have talked to someone who was able to do captures without a raid setup. I may eventually go raid but for now it is a matter of time, money and messing with an already stable system.

My rushed test capture looked pretty good. My question is, how do I know if/when I'm not capturing all the frames? How does it show up in the end product? I mean when capturing DV over 1394 it gives me a dropped frame count. Would I see choopy video or blurred frames? Would I need to capture a descreet number of frames and then go count them in the captured AVI (sounds like a lot of work)?

I have Premiere, Scenalyzer (which now does stop motion) and a trial of DobCap. Are any of these better than the others for a non-raid system? I'm guessing Premiere is worst because it is a memory hog. I tried to monitor the mouse clicks on the capture button but that does not look like a good indication. I'll do the pulldown and editing in Vegas 4.0.

I am running W2k, seperat video HD (7200RPM), defragged, killing all unneeded process, disabling Nic card etc.

Next question is capture environment. Is it better to have a well light room, dark room... candle light (for those romantic captures)? Does it even matter?

Sorry for the long post, I have more questions but I'm going to do some experimenting first.

Thanks!!!

-Tom

[MovieStuff]

Now for the next challenge. I know Rodger (and others) suggest a raid setup to be able to optimally capture. But, I have talked to someone who was able to do captures without a raid setup. I may eventually go raid but for now it is a matter of time, money and messing with an already stable system.

My rushed test capture looked pretty good. My question is, how do I know if/when I'm not capturing all the frames?

Unless you are working with a really old, slow machine, you will never drop any frames. However, without a RAID-0, your computer may not be able to process the mouse clicks fast enough and that can cause a loss of synch. The on-screen manifestation will be images with a vertical blur. So, while you won't drop any frames, the frames captured my exhibit streaking because they were captured while the film was moving instead of sitting still in the gate.

Regarding use of a RAID-0: We have been able to capture successfully without a RAID but we have not been able to get CONSISTANT performance. Meaning that sometimes it will work fine and sometimes it will lose synch. Using a RAID-0 will ensure consistant performance.

Now, I do have a handful of people that claim they are getting acceptable results with a single video drive. However, their idea of acceptable and my idea of acceptable may be mutually exclusive. Many people, prior to buying the WorkPrinter-XP, had struggled with shooting off of rear screen boxes, flicker, hot spots, etc. To some, getting an occasional loss of synch once very minute or so may be totally fine, compared to their previous results with other transfer methods. However, if the WorkPrinter timing and computer are set up correctly, you really should be able to transfer an entire 400 reel (over 28,000 frames) with no loss of synch and no vertical streaking. Most people in a business environment realize that the cost of a Raid becomes incidental in exchange for that type of performance assurance.

But, we all have a budget and, if you are going to use a single drive, make sure that you at least have a separate system drive (and not just one drive partitioned into two drive designations).

Disabling your network card, clock, tool bar, screen saver, etc, basically anything that can poll your CPU and interupt the processing of the mouse commands will go a long way toward making for a smoother capture.

I have never used Scenalyzer and can offer no support for it, in terms of working out your timing issues. You are correct that Premier is a memory hog and will really only stand a chance of working correctly if you have a powerful system and a Raid. If you are going to use a single drive, then I highly suggest using DodCap. It is far more efficient than Premier and DodCap will also do your pulldown speed changes more conveniently, as it offers batch processing of all your clips. The pulldown pattern created by DodCap is identical to the best quality Rank transfer, so the motion is very, very smooth.

Transfers don't have to be done in the dark but the condenser lens can pick up reflections from the area behind the camera. Avoid spectral highlights in that area or hang a black cloth behind the tripod. Some people use a mailing tube between the camera and the condenser lens.

Good luck!

Roger Evans

[tmoceri]

Rodger, how many times do you have to explain it to me before it sinks in Well I think it did sink in now.

I did a 5 minute capture test sans Raid and check each and every frame... and they were all there nice and pretty. But then I did another capture and had a app running under the covers (unbenounce to me) and noticed a lag.

So the key word is CONSISTENT. And I'm sure you would love to say to people like me "hey you already spent the $$$$ on a fine capture rig go the extra step and setup the Raid for peanuts."

Regarding the "mail" tube, I'll let that one go for now unless I need it in the future.

Until I do have a raid 0 going (should be a couple weeks) would it be an option to dial the WP-XP down using the white nob on the back to slow down the frame rate so my computer can keep up? I'm guesing that it would still be in sync since the mouse click is the syncing mechanism?

Thanks

-Tom

[moviesko]

Yes, the key is the CONSISTENT ! Last spring when I got my Workprinter Pro, I did transfer with single drive of some films and I was very pleased with results. Then when editing those films with Premiere I noticed that on some 50 feet rolls there were some up to 10 frames with vertical plur !.
During the summer I was concentarting to sailing and WP was collecting dust on table. About week ago I started to analyse those transfers and went through all about 20 files almost frame by frame and found more frames with vertical blur. Then I found this thread and read your comments again. Last saturday I bought RAID-0 SATA controller and two 120GB SATA drives. On Sunday I transferred 10 rolls and found no defective frames ! Now, I believe what you have been trying to say. So, if you want have consistent results go for RAID-0 or even better RAID-0 with SATA drives.

[tangodancer]

I had to replace my camera for one with a bigger optical zoom but I am finding that I still have a hard time getting a sharp focus, certainly nothing yet "commerce worthy". Any tips for getting the focus right?

Also, one of the biggest problems I had was getting the camera aligned correctly. I'd zoom right in and the light spot would be to one side of the screen and I'd have to realign everything again to try and get it centred.

The captures work well though, I have a RAID-0 setup and get no problems in that area. Just need better quality in the image.

[tmoceri]

"Also, one of the biggest problems I had was getting the camera aligned correctly"

That is why I got a permenant WP camera because once I do have it setup I can lock everything down.

TangoDancer (anyone else), I was hoping to use an older PIII with 256K ram as a capture machine. Given the speed enhancements with the RAID-0 setup makes me believe that this would be acceptible. I'd hate to think that I would have to go out and buy/build a new machine

As far as focus, once I get everything aligned and the zoom dead on I use the WP focus as the primary way to get the picture as sharp as possible (although I'm still experimenting).

Other thing that Rodger suggested was an external monitor. That does help.

-Tom

[MovieStuff]

I had to replace my camera for one with a bigger optical zoom but I am finding that I still have a hard time getting a sharp focus, certainly nothing yet "commerce worthy". Any tips for getting the focus right?

CODE NAME: TangoDancer

IDENTITY: Unknown. No Cross-reference available

MISSION: Higher resolution image

INSTRUCTIONS: Contact HQ on the QT ASAP and personel are standing by to assist in imaging target.

NUMERICAL TRANSMISSION CODE: 713-426-6662 or 1-8MM-TEL-CINE

CONTACT IDENTITY: Roger

MESSAGE AS FOLLOWS: Give me a shout and I'll talk you through alignment so that it's perfect.

[tangodancer]

Ok, practice makes perfect on the alignment and RTFMing got the focus correct - I hadn't adjusted the projector focus, funny how that made a difference.

Just to prove it, here is a small sample of my test reel: http://www.guapacha.com/Test.rm

I am pretty impressed with the quality, even when condensed to that low-bandwidth rm file. Still some work to do though, it looks like I need to zoom in more to get rid of the partial frames in the picture, and it looks like my tripod isn't quite level as the frame is at a slight angle (though if I zoom in enough that probably won't be evident?).

Thanks to all for their useful advice in this and other topics.

Paul Sanders.

[MovieStuff]

Hi, Paul!

I noticed some vertical smears in the footage, which indicates that you need to adjust the timing cam inside the unit to alter the delay on the mouse signal. The smears are from the frame being captured while the frame is in motion and it needs to be captured while the frame is stationary in the gate. Critical adjustment of the cam will eliminate all of the vertical smear that you're seeing now.

Call me if you need any assistance.

Roger

[tmoceri]

Hi, Paul!
Critical adjustment of the cam will eliminate all of the vertical smear that you're seeing now.

Call me if you need any assistance.
Roger

Roger, you mentioned this to me while we were on the phone but I did not know if it was part of the instructions you sent out?

If not could it be? In case I need to rerun the adjustment process in the future if I have a new machine or cam. Plus it would spare you some time on the phone

[MovieStuff]

[
Roger, you mentioned this to me while we were on the phone but I did not know if it was part of the instructions you sent out?

It's actually in the instructions but a lot people overlook it because they get excited about the initial results and think that the set up is complete. The instructions come right after the section about doing a test transfer and says that if the transfer shows evidence of vertical smears or streaks, then the timing needs to be set and gives instructions how to proceed with the adjustment. Let me know if you need me to resend instructions.

Roger

[tmoceri]

It's actually in the instructions but a lot people overlook it because they get excited about the initial results ... Let me know if you need me to resend instructions.

Roger

Guilty as charged, after seeing what I was getting with the initial rough setup I put down the instructions and started tinkering. I'll re-read it, after taking a chill pill that is.

-Tom

[tangodancer]

Critical adjustment of the cam will eliminate all of the vertical smear that you're seeing now.

Hi Roger

Thanks for noticing the smears, not sure if my tweaking with the cam has improved it a whole lot, perhaps I will put a new clip up at some point for you to tell me.

In the meantime, this is kinda off topic but I wonder if anyone has seen this behaviour before and has any clue what I can do. I have a number of video editing tools for making MPEG2 and DVDs but recently (and the kicker is that I don't know what I did) all of these tools freeze my machine when encoding an AVI.

It seems that something must be broken or incompatible with my machine at a low level for them all to fail in the same way. I get no error message, machine just freezes. I did 5 8mm films today for my mother in law and want to show them to her! But so far no joy in getting any of them encoded.

Anyway, sorry this isn't WP or 8mm related, but I've asked this question on many boards and I figured one more would not hurt.

Thanks

Paul
(ps my machine is an Athlon XP2700+, 1G RAM, RAID-0, XP Pro)

[tmoceri]

Going to tackle the Raid install tomorrow. Anyone know a good (or even average) online howto on Raid-0?

-Tom

[tangodancer]

Going to tackle the Raid install tomorrow. Anyone know a good (or even average) online howto on Raid-0?

-Tom

Obviously every controller board is different but the install should be real easy. Plug the controller card into the right socket, attach the two IDE cables to the controller and the IDE drives. Switch it on and, in most every case, the controller card will interrupt the BIOS to have you configure it. Make sure you choose RAID-0 and not the other options.

For what its worth, I have a Promise Fast Trak TX2000 and have been very happy with it. There is a trick with that controller you need to know to format the drives, let me know if you need it.

Do a search on tomshardware.com for some articles and reviews.

Paul