Bolex H16RX and FOMApan R100: does it run OK or not?

[Bart Sanders]

Dear all,

Did anyone of you made the following experience?

Using a Bolex H16RX (BOLEX factory serviced just two months ago, the testfilm which comes with it shows an absolute terrific image quality (steadyness hor. and vert. and frameline)).

Using FOMApan R100 of recent date. This stock runs fine through my Krasnogorsk-3.

This stock DOES NOT RUN FINE through my H16. I got 5 unexpected full stops in ca. 10 mtr. of FOMA film. Pushing the release trigger in each case resulted in... no action. Something stuck. Turning the single frame axle back and forth always dis-locked the lockup. It runs again a while, then stucks. Spring wound motor is always wound up to the max. Shots are between 5 to 15 secs. Nothing the motor could not handle. After development of this film, image steadiness was very bad and completely oppsite to the testfilm Bolex had included during service.

Now: upon advice from Bolex, I tested a "true" Kodak film. 2 mtr. of Plus-X negative (i.e. exactly the same film Bolex has used to check their service labour and deliver a flawlessly serviced camera): NO problem, ran through and image is fine.

Then: to really check it I ran 10 mtr. of 4-X and this one also runs FINE through the camera.

Wrap up: FOMA does not run, Kodak does.

Anybody know why?

I would love to keep on using FOMApan in my H16, fine grain, good tonal values and not expensive.

[filmbuff]

Did anyone of you made the following experience?

I never got steady footage with Foma DS8 through my former Bolex DS8 camera. Upon projection I was always dissapointed with the stability. The Canon DS8 did a bit better with the Foma but still not what I expected from real pressure plate cameras. However never had a problem as bad as yours where the film gets stuck in camera.

I read somewhere that Foma is thicker than Kodak stocks. Could Bolex have calibrated your pressure plate to optomize it for Kodak films?

[jukkasil]

I have shot Fomapan with my Quarz DS8 camera, worked just fine.

Have any of you shot Fomapan with Arriflex 16 BL or ST model?

[Bart Sanders]

Hi all,

I have measured the film-thickness: 0.140mm for Kodak and 0.140 mm for FOMApan. So, it's not the thickness.

I have measured the widths as well:
FOMA is 14.980 and Kodak is 14.910 - standard stated 14.950 +0,025 -0,025

So, Foma is a bit above standard max and Kodak a bit below standard min.

Could that be it? The film simply being too wide? Hmmm.

By the way: FOMApan runs fine through my DS8 Quartz, but image steadiness leaves something to be desired for. Same like in the H16 case (although worse in the latter case).

I guess I will have to stick to Kodak film when using the H16.

[David M. Leugers]

Crap! I was looking forward so much to shooting my two rolls of Fomapan DS-8mm film...
I am still hoping Paul can pull off his perfing business and it will succeed if he can produce film that is steady in the gate.

David M. Leugers

[Regular 8 Freak]

I have almost the same problem when trying to run fomapan in my Bolex P1. Yep, the Kodak stuff is fine. I have filmed with fomapan in two different different Bell & Howell cameras and achieved decent results. I love the way the shadows look with it. However, I do have three boxes of "test" film as the result of taking three rolls only of fomapan and the P1 on vacation once!

[paulcotto]

I'm getting closer every day now. The only thing slowing me down is my son started driver’s education. Now I have to drive 20 minutes both ways 2 times to pick him up and drop him off. It's killing my biggest block of time to build during the week. I am still making good progress, just a little slower then I hoped. I should be done in a week or so. I am building the framework for the light proof case. Then I just need to make the guide roller brackets then paint and final assembly. I will let you all know the day I finish.


Regards,
Paul Cotto

Crap! I was looking forward so much to shooting my two rolls of Fomapan DS-8mm film...
I am still hoping Paul can pull off his perfing business and it will succeed if he can produce film that is steady in the gate.

David M. Leugers

[Bart Sanders]

Hi,
I just got the reaction from the Bolex factory. Here are some copied lines:
-------------
Dear Mr. Sanders,

Thank you for the results of your tests.

As you, we suspect that the width of the films you have tested is probably not the source of the problem, since they are all within the tolerances.

In turn, this could indicate that the FOMApan film (totally unknown to us, we have never heard this name) may have a chemical surface treatment that does not allow an optimal “sliding” of the film inside the mechanism of the camera. If the film does not “slide” correctly in the film gate and under the pressure plate, this may be the source of the jamming. We could imagine to lighten the pressure of the pressure plate, but this would very probably affect the sharpness of the film, and it is not sure this will allow a better “sliding” of the film.

---------------------------------------

The next step: contact FOMA, I guess. I still love their picture quality.

[Herb Montes]

I have run one roll of Fomapan in a Russian camera and the results were okay. Some of the registration did not look very steady but it could have been the camera. I have several unused rolls and will try to run one through one of my Bolexes this weekend and will let you know what I get.

[7OSE9]

I resume this old discussion because it could be a current problem: I've never had any slowdowns problems with my Bolex H8 Rex 4, with all brands of film (Fomapan R100 25/30 feet included), but now something like this happened to me: with a Fomapan R100 100 feet film, at arrived at about 30 feet, has some occasional slowdowns, especially at the end of the spring charge. Of course, the camera doesn't stop, never slowsdown at the beginning of the charge, but from half of charge camera have micro slowdowns, at various speeds, more to the high ones (32, 48... etc.) .
I immediately thought about the need of lubrication, but I did not reject the type of film hypothesis.
I should get a 100 feet film of another brand (expired), and maybe run it in the closed shutter camera (for not waste it).
In the meantime ... what do you think?

[Mmechanic]

I have measured the widths as well:
FOMA is 14.980 and Kodak is 14.910 - standard stated 14.950 +0,025 -0,025

What?!

You must have mistyped. You meant 15,98 mm and 15,91 mm.
ISO 69 says 15,95 mm ± 0,025.

15,910 mm would be too narrow. When you subtract 0,025 mm from 15,950 mm you have 15,925 mm as lower limit.

Do check the perforation. I have read about Fomapan R (probably the film you use) having bad perforation. The hole row(s) run laterally off.

If possible, mount a snipped of clear film in a glass frame slide and project it at 100 times magnification. The film width you previously measured should appear 1,598 m wide. Now you can measure. According to ISO 69 the margin between film edge and outer hole side should be 0,9 mm ± 0,05. At that magnification you should measure 90 mm. The camera cannot transport film having misaligned holes. Lateral displacements are the most frequent perforation faults.

For accurate measurements, shoot a meter scale with a normal focal length lens (25 mm) at 2,5 m distance from the film.

The camera can have a fault, though. Bent claw for example. I do service Paillard-Bolex products.

[7OSE9]

It's an old post, Simon, maybe they had given some wrong data to the user; eftectively, me too was not in agreement with the measures...
Meanwhile, as you can see, I'm continuing to look for possible solutions to my "problem", before I do (sooner or later I have to do it) to my Bolex an overhaul.
Too bad that there are no films 2x8 100 feet (apart from laboratories that cut them personally, new) that are not Fomapan R100, and I can't do the test I said.

[Mmechanic]

Ma sì, Luigi, you can buy Kodak Vision 3, 50 ISO daylight color negative film in Double-Eight, 105 feet, for $135 from Dennis Toeppen. http://toeppenfilm.com/ordernow.html

[7OSE9]

The price, taking into account that it is in dollars, suits me. I really need a Vision3 in 8mm (50 or 200), I was planning to take it from a lab that cut.
Thank you for pointing, I had gone to Denis's webpage, but I had only seen the page with little boxes and not this page. Thank you, Simon.