Hi guys,
this winter I will start filming for my super8 snowboard movie, I already started shooting "fill in" footage for each guy's part to have in the opening and now Im waiting for the snow to fall.
Anyway, Im well known on how to shoot snowboarding, but I never done it with super8. I could use some advice on the tech part, like is there anything I should know or adjust on the camera before shooting in the snow? I want my shoots to look as good as possible. This is a project Im going for. I need help on how to operate the cam in these condition to make it look GOOD! I will mainly use a tripod for most shoots, but will also be close on some.Anything goes.
Any tips would be nice like auto or manual, whats best in snow? And so on...
Thanks
Filming full lenght snowboard movie on super8.
Moderator: Andreas Wideroe
-
S8 Booster
- Posts: 5857
- Joined: Mon May 06, 2002 11:49 pm
- Real name: Super Octa Booster
- Location: Yeah, it IS the real thing not the Fooleywood Crapitfied Wannabe Copy..
- Contact:
Hi Marius.
At first a few details of importance for making suggestions:
To start with a few questions:
* What film stock are you planning to use?
* What camera will be used?
R
At first a few details of importance for making suggestions:
To start with a few questions:
* What film stock are you planning to use?
* What camera will be used?
R
..tnx for reminding me Michael Lehnert.... or Santo or.... cinematography.com super8 - the forum of Rednex, Wannabees and Pretenders...
Ofcourse=)My mistake, sorry.
Im thinking of useing the K40 if I cant get a hold on the new stock, Is there any other stock?
And for the movie Ive been shooting the fill in scenes with a Bauer S8, but Im planning the film the whole thing with a Canon 814 XL-S or 1014 XL-S, just need to get a hold of one, in a hurry kinda now.
Im thinking of useing the K40 if I cant get a hold on the new stock, Is there any other stock?
And for the movie Ive been shooting the fill in scenes with a Bauer S8, but Im planning the film the whole thing with a Canon 814 XL-S or 1014 XL-S, just need to get a hold of one, in a hurry kinda now.
In addition to your tripod, a monopod would also come in handy. The last time I shot footage in the snow, on 16mm, I used a tripod for still shots and a monopod for following action / pans. Of course, a monopd would be less cumbersone when trying to access more challenging terrain for filming on certain ski runs. A monopod could also come in handy for ariel tracking shots from chair lifts.
With regards to actual cinematography, I notice that with good snowboard films, a wide angle lens is often used up close to the rider for dramatic impact, sometimes combined with slow motion. However, a problem with trying to duplicate this sort of shooting with super 8 is that the wide angle settings on most super 8 zooms is not really that wide at all. Hence the effect will not be as great. Perhaps, you could try and obtain a wide angle adaptor to screw on to the front of your existing lens. Though check the quality of these adaptors first as some don't seem to be too good in the optical department.
Good luck with your shoot. Roughly what length of film are you aiming for with the finished product?
With regards to actual cinematography, I notice that with good snowboard films, a wide angle lens is often used up close to the rider for dramatic impact, sometimes combined with slow motion. However, a problem with trying to duplicate this sort of shooting with super 8 is that the wide angle settings on most super 8 zooms is not really that wide at all. Hence the effect will not be as great. Perhaps, you could try and obtain a wide angle adaptor to screw on to the front of your existing lens. Though check the quality of these adaptors first as some don't seem to be too good in the optical department.
Good luck with your shoot. Roughly what length of film are you aiming for with the finished product?
-
Andreas Wideroe
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2276
- Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 4:50 pm
- Real name: Andreas Wideroe
- Location: Kristiansand, Norway
- Contact:
http://www.smalfilm.no/film.phpMarius wrote:Ofcourse=)My mistake, sorry.
Im thinking of useing the K40 if I cant get a hold on the new stock, Is there any other stock?
/Andreas
Andreas Wideroe
Filmshooting | Com - Administrator
Please help support the Filmshooting forum with donations
Filmshooting | Com - Administrator
Please help support the Filmshooting forum with donations
-
focusgroup
- Posts: 179
- Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 7:01 pm
- Contact:
Hi Marius.
I'd like to add that you should be aware that cold temperatures will impact battery life in a big way. If possible, use an external pack that you can keep warm in your pocket. Routinely use the battery test function and keep a note of how many rolls you have shot with your current set of battery cells. When the power starts to go the camera won't be able to hold its speed and speed fluctuations will result in uneven exposure (since the exposure time is a function of fps)
Overall, K-40 is the most suitable filmstock. I've shot some pro8mm 50D which looks good too but it's hard to justify the cost.
-------
Yemi
I'd like to add that you should be aware that cold temperatures will impact battery life in a big way. If possible, use an external pack that you can keep warm in your pocket. Routinely use the battery test function and keep a note of how many rolls you have shot with your current set of battery cells. When the power starts to go the camera won't be able to hold its speed and speed fluctuations will result in uneven exposure (since the exposure time is a function of fps)
Overall, K-40 is the most suitable filmstock. I've shot some pro8mm 50D which looks good too but it's hard to justify the cost.
-------
Yemi
Find some way to keep your batteries warm. I was shooting some snowboarding here in CO and my in camera batteries died after a few seconds of filming. When i got back to the car and had a chance to warm them they were all good again. I got a external battery pack for my 1014 xls and now i keep it inside my jacket so my body heat can keep it from freezing.
I am curious if you guys are using lithium batteries, I spend lots of time taking photos in the cold backcountry and never have much trouble. but maybe its different with a motion camera with the fps and all.
Marius this summer I hooked up a 1014xls, I will be bringing it out sledding quite abit, I usually shoot some pretty solid riders. Let me know if youd be interested in any contributions to your flick. I ve alway wanted to shoot S8 snowboard flick. Just wish i could justify it. ($$)
best of luck
Ian
Marius this summer I hooked up a 1014xls, I will be bringing it out sledding quite abit, I usually shoot some pretty solid riders. Let me know if youd be interested in any contributions to your flick. I ve alway wanted to shoot S8 snowboard flick. Just wish i could justify it. ($$)
best of luck
Ian
Thanks for all the advice, I guess the running time for the video will be around 25-30min which is pretty average for a snowflick.
Ian: IF you would contribute some footage it would be great, I will be shooting some pretty solid riders myself. I could use all from nature shoot of mt., snowboarders to freeriding/freestyle. All is good. Maybe have a good mix of it all. I will be shooting mostly park/backcountry myself since its not to much power right here were i Live. Keep in thouch.
Marius
Ian: IF you would contribute some footage it would be great, I will be shooting some pretty solid riders myself. I could use all from nature shoot of mt., snowboarders to freeriding/freestyle. All is good. Maybe have a good mix of it all. I will be shooting mostly park/backcountry myself since its not to much power right here were i Live. Keep in thouch.
Marius
-
BolexPlusX
- Posts: 423
- Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2002 3:00 pm
- Location: Long Island, New York
- Contact:
hi marius,
jeez, i´m so bummed, i spent like an hour and a half yesterday writing this fat reply to your post only to have it wiped into cyber oblivion at this internet cafe i´m using while down here in argentina.
anyway, now that i have calmed down considerably to the point of not throwing this computer through the front window of this fine establishment, i´ll try again....
i´ve been shooting a snowboard/ski movie for the better part of the last year so i should be able to answer a few of you questions.
as for filmstock, i would recommend k40 for sure. it works fine in snowy scenes since there is so much light in your shot, the slow speed of this film is not an issue. i would sugges however that you use a neutral density filter when shooting outdoors. i shoot with an nd6 a fair amount, this cuts out 2 stops of light. this filter is good for two reasons:
1 - it allows you to get into the sweet spot of your lens. i prefer not to shoot at either extreme of the f stop range on super 8 cameras, because i find that the image looks a bit sharper and cleaner if you can stay in the mid range for good exposure. an nd6 with k40 in full sunlight conditions in the snow allows you to shoot in the f11-f5.6 range which is nice.
2- you can also utilize the reduced depth of field by getting into the smaller f-stops such as f4, f2.8, etc. by using neutral density filters to help to separate your subject from the background/foreground of the shot. it is particularly easy to do when this is combined with using your zoom lens at a focal length that is over 50mm. this effect give your image more depth and looks quite nice.
i like to shoot plus-x black and white too, especially when its lower light or dumping out. the look is very cool and i would certainly try some out. use an orange filter with this stock, it brings out your mid tone grays nicely.
i´ve found that for close up shots, i mostly like to shoot high frame rates, which on my nizo professioal, means 54fps. it really shows the nuances of the rider, their style, etc. for shots that are farther away, such as a rider dropping a big line, etc. real time works much better. slo mo in this type of shot typically looks too slow, too boring, and eats alot of film up. my camera does not have anything between 25fps and 54fps, but if you have 32 or 34 fps, i would try that for close up shots as well. when i shoot with my arri s 16 mm rig, i rarely shoot any action at 24fps. bumping up to the low 30´s for frame rate renders action pretty much in real time, it just smooths it out just a tiny bit. action happens so fast at 24 fps, that its nice to slow it down just a touch. keep in mind you may want to break this rule, if you are shooting alot of backcountry cheese wedge booter shots, where you are at a distance from your rider but you want to see the trick in real time, or close to it at least.
definitely get a wide angle adapter like the canon c-8 wide adapter. it looks great for close up shots and since everthing from the front of the lens element to infinity is in focus, you can literally shove it into the action and get everything that is going on. its great for lifestyle and face shots too.
as for batteries, go with the lithium ion batteries instead of standard alkalines. they are resistant to cold, and last much longer. always have an extra set with you for when they do finally die. i just changed out my batts before leaving for agentina and had shot all winter on one set, over 40 rolls of k-40 with no problems. never had to keep them out and in a warm pocket and anything like that. they are double the price but way worth it.
ok, i´ll send this to make sure i don´t get screwed again and re post more stuff....
jeez, i´m so bummed, i spent like an hour and a half yesterday writing this fat reply to your post only to have it wiped into cyber oblivion at this internet cafe i´m using while down here in argentina.
anyway, now that i have calmed down considerably to the point of not throwing this computer through the front window of this fine establishment, i´ll try again....
i´ve been shooting a snowboard/ski movie for the better part of the last year so i should be able to answer a few of you questions.
as for filmstock, i would recommend k40 for sure. it works fine in snowy scenes since there is so much light in your shot, the slow speed of this film is not an issue. i would sugges however that you use a neutral density filter when shooting outdoors. i shoot with an nd6 a fair amount, this cuts out 2 stops of light. this filter is good for two reasons:
1 - it allows you to get into the sweet spot of your lens. i prefer not to shoot at either extreme of the f stop range on super 8 cameras, because i find that the image looks a bit sharper and cleaner if you can stay in the mid range for good exposure. an nd6 with k40 in full sunlight conditions in the snow allows you to shoot in the f11-f5.6 range which is nice.
2- you can also utilize the reduced depth of field by getting into the smaller f-stops such as f4, f2.8, etc. by using neutral density filters to help to separate your subject from the background/foreground of the shot. it is particularly easy to do when this is combined with using your zoom lens at a focal length that is over 50mm. this effect give your image more depth and looks quite nice.
i like to shoot plus-x black and white too, especially when its lower light or dumping out. the look is very cool and i would certainly try some out. use an orange filter with this stock, it brings out your mid tone grays nicely.
i´ve found that for close up shots, i mostly like to shoot high frame rates, which on my nizo professioal, means 54fps. it really shows the nuances of the rider, their style, etc. for shots that are farther away, such as a rider dropping a big line, etc. real time works much better. slo mo in this type of shot typically looks too slow, too boring, and eats alot of film up. my camera does not have anything between 25fps and 54fps, but if you have 32 or 34 fps, i would try that for close up shots as well. when i shoot with my arri s 16 mm rig, i rarely shoot any action at 24fps. bumping up to the low 30´s for frame rate renders action pretty much in real time, it just smooths it out just a tiny bit. action happens so fast at 24 fps, that its nice to slow it down just a touch. keep in mind you may want to break this rule, if you are shooting alot of backcountry cheese wedge booter shots, where you are at a distance from your rider but you want to see the trick in real time, or close to it at least.
definitely get a wide angle adapter like the canon c-8 wide adapter. it looks great for close up shots and since everthing from the front of the lens element to infinity is in focus, you can literally shove it into the action and get everything that is going on. its great for lifestyle and face shots too.
as for batteries, go with the lithium ion batteries instead of standard alkalines. they are resistant to cold, and last much longer. always have an extra set with you for when they do finally die. i just changed out my batts before leaving for agentina and had shot all winter on one set, over 40 rolls of k-40 with no problems. never had to keep them out and in a warm pocket and anything like that. they are double the price but way worth it.
ok, i´ll send this to make sure i don´t get screwed again and re post more stuff....