Hi,
I have been shooting some short films in DV with a 16:9 aspect ratio. Now, if I want to change to Super 8, with a crystal syched Nizo, how will the business of 16:9 work?
First, how does one compose in the frame for it? Is there a suggestion for how to block off the frame at top and bottom, for instance?
Next, how will the transfer work, especially in regards to the Workprinter,
whether I buy one or send the films off to MovieStuff.
Next, will the frame RATE matter, with that aspect ratio, given that it
will probably be sync sound? I would much like to hear from anyone who has tried to alter the Super 8 aspect ratio. Thanks.
super 8 aspect ratio
Moderator: Andreas Wideroe
-
Cranium
- Posts: 388
- Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 11:00 pm
- Real name: Mikel Zwissler
- Location: San Francisco
- Contact:
I did a 16x9 transfer about a week ago with the Workprinter.
If you shoot the film flat (no anamorphic lens) then you can transfer with a 16x9 DV camera. Just frame it so the sides are correct, and your capture will be cropping the top and bottom off. It worked fine for me, though I'd probably rather use an anamorphic adapter on the S8 camera, to maximize resolution.
If you shoot the film flat (no anamorphic lens) then you can transfer with a 16x9 DV camera. Just frame it so the sides are correct, and your capture will be cropping the top and bottom off. It worked fine for me, though I'd probably rather use an anamorphic adapter on the S8 camera, to maximize resolution.
-
focusgroup
- Posts: 179
- Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 7:01 pm
- Contact:
Hello MBRU
I am in the process of doing exactly what you going to do as well. I have ordered a workprinter from Mr. Evans and have asked him re: anamorphic converters for super 8mm.
If I understood him correctly an anamorphic lense will NOT work with the workprinter. He has advised me against such a set up. I think the only way to get a 16:9 aspect ratio is perhaps using a century optics convertor on the dv cam to use all the pixels of digital video.
Good luck
I am in the process of doing exactly what you going to do as well. I have ordered a workprinter from Mr. Evans and have asked him re: anamorphic converters for super 8mm.
If I understood him correctly an anamorphic lense will NOT work with the workprinter. He has advised me against such a set up. I think the only way to get a 16:9 aspect ratio is perhaps using a century optics convertor on the dv cam to use all the pixels of digital video.
Good luck
-
MovieStuff
- Posts: 6135
- Joined: Wed May 01, 2002 1:07 am
- Real name: Roger Evans
- Location: Kerrville, Texas
- Contact:
The reason that an anamorphic lens won't work with the WorkPrinter is that anamorphic lenses don't focus close enough to accomodate use with the condenser lens of the WorkPrinter.
The easiest and most accurate way to handle anamorphic with either the WorkPrinter or the DV8 is to shoot anamorphic, transfer like normal, then squash the image in post with something like Premier. Include an image of something round shot on super 8 anamorphic and transfer that first. Then use that image as a guide for when the aspect ratio is correct. When the circle stops being an oval, you've got it set right on the computer.
There are a couple of ways to do this. On many systems, there is a sort of horizontal "barn door" effect that closes down from the bottom and top but, instead of just cropping the image, it actually squeezes the image equally from both top and bottom. Also, in Premier, there is a function within the "motion" selection that lets you grab the frame by the corners and distort it. You can squash the image with that as well.
In either case, you will need to use the circle as a guide for setting the correct aspect ratio. Also, the effect will have to render but that generally isn't an issue. If you're transferring 24fps or 18fps footage then you will have to render the speed change anyway.
I should also point out that, for maximum resolution, pull back on the image a bit when transferring on the WorkPrinter so that the left and right edges of the image do not disappear off the edges of a normal television, but stop just at the viewable edge. This will let you have 100% of the picture area and will increase the perceptible resolution by reducing the grain. It wil also enhance the wide screen effect quite a bit. You will need to not only mask the top and bottom but the sides a bit as well.
Increasing your frame rate to 30fps (if possible) will also increase your effective resolution, perhaps by as much as 25% (for NTSC) since the detail will be spread across 25% more film. We've been transferring some 30fps footage lately and it looks really good.
Roger
The easiest and most accurate way to handle anamorphic with either the WorkPrinter or the DV8 is to shoot anamorphic, transfer like normal, then squash the image in post with something like Premier. Include an image of something round shot on super 8 anamorphic and transfer that first. Then use that image as a guide for when the aspect ratio is correct. When the circle stops being an oval, you've got it set right on the computer.
There are a couple of ways to do this. On many systems, there is a sort of horizontal "barn door" effect that closes down from the bottom and top but, instead of just cropping the image, it actually squeezes the image equally from both top and bottom. Also, in Premier, there is a function within the "motion" selection that lets you grab the frame by the corners and distort it. You can squash the image with that as well.
In either case, you will need to use the circle as a guide for setting the correct aspect ratio. Also, the effect will have to render but that generally isn't an issue. If you're transferring 24fps or 18fps footage then you will have to render the speed change anyway.
I should also point out that, for maximum resolution, pull back on the image a bit when transferring on the WorkPrinter so that the left and right edges of the image do not disappear off the edges of a normal television, but stop just at the viewable edge. This will let you have 100% of the picture area and will increase the perceptible resolution by reducing the grain. It wil also enhance the wide screen effect quite a bit. You will need to not only mask the top and bottom but the sides a bit as well.
Increasing your frame rate to 30fps (if possible) will also increase your effective resolution, perhaps by as much as 25% (for NTSC) since the detail will be spread across 25% more film. We've been transferring some 30fps footage lately and it looks really good.
Roger
-
Cranium
- Posts: 388
- Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 11:00 pm
- Real name: Mikel Zwissler
- Location: San Francisco
- Contact:
You can also lie to Premiere when you capture it.
If you're using a 16x9 anamorphic attachment on your S8 camera, set your capture settings in Premiere to "Widescreen aspect ratio" or whatever it is. Then frame the squished S8 in the WP so it fits as well as possible in the DV frame, with the usual top and bottom junk.
When you play it back in premiere, it will unsqueeze it.
If you're using a 16x9 anamorphic attachment on your S8 camera, set your capture settings in Premiere to "Widescreen aspect ratio" or whatever it is. Then frame the squished S8 in the WP so it fits as well as possible in the DV frame, with the usual top and bottom junk.
When you play it back in premiere, it will unsqueeze it.
-
mbru
super 8 aspect ratio
Hi all,
This is very helpful. One question--does anyone know what IS the
aspect ratio of Super 8. It looks like Academy or something. It is
certainly not square. Also, apart from all the discussion about transferring the footage to DV to get it into the computer, what about the original
framing when you shoot? This is a very important issue, if people are to be convinced to shoot Super 8 rather than DV!
This is very helpful. One question--does anyone know what IS the
aspect ratio of Super 8. It looks like Academy or something. It is
certainly not square. Also, apart from all the discussion about transferring the footage to DV to get it into the computer, what about the original
framing when you shoot? This is a very important issue, if people are to be convinced to shoot Super 8 rather than DV!