How sound works???

[Mattan]

Hey guys
i'm getting a lot of information from this website and the very nice people in it , i beilive that by the end of the week i'll be ready to order some fresh equipment...just have few more questions...
how do the sound works in these s8 cameras? do you think it is better to record it individually with mini-disk or something?

thanks a lot, again.

Mattan, Israel.

[wahiba]

At one time there were sound cameras and sound film. It has a magnetic stripe down the side. Second hand cameras and projectors are obviously available, but the film is no longer made and availability is on a par with Dodo droppings!

Pros use cameras with crystal synchronisation. Someone else will have more info on that.

I just add copyright free music from 3 CDs I have and leave it at that. Then I am not musical. However, it is amazing what difference a reasonable bit of background music makes to any silent film.

[Mattan]

yeh, but what when you want to film someone talking? can you record it with super8, i mean how will you edit it and play it in the projector?
does the super8 film they sell on ebay contains that magnetic line you were talking about?

thanks,

Mattan.

[el don]

super8 film available from kodak is silent. you have to record sound with something else than your camera, and sync it, with your computer or your projector. have a look here:

http://lavender.fortunecity.com/lavende ... csync.html

and here:

http://www.super8mm.org/html/sync_in_prod.html

[Mattan]

thanks man,
the websites you gave me were great, lots of info.
do you know anything of the canon514XL?
thats my num1 nominee...i think i'm gonna but it...i just need more opinios from people like you.
thanks,

Mattan, Israel.

[studiocarter]

Roger told me that even a VHS deck is like a Nagra crystal sync tape recorder. I use my Hi-8 stereo camera and a zoom gun mic to get rid of motor noise. It gets synced in Premiere to claps at the head and tail of each shot. GoldWave is also used to alter the sound in tiny amounts to sync it. I only have a Nikon S8 zoom but at least it has the 24fps click setting. I hope it'll be good enough for the Auricon.

[MovieStuff]

Roger told me that even a VHS deck is like a Nagra crystal sync tape recorder. .

In terms of synch, yes. There is a crystal that is the basis for the synch reference that video lays down ala the control track. It is just as accurate (more so, actually) as any pilot tone on a Nagra. And, like a self resolving Nagra, the video tape on playback will resolve itself to that constant.

Also, any video tape has pretty good wow and flutter characteristics due to its constant speed. Years ago, I had a VHS deck that the picture died on but it still recorded a control track and audio. I used it to record classical music off the radio. Even in the dreaded SLP mode, the music sounded flawless and as good (to my ears, anyway) as any CDs that I had of similar music.

I've used video decks in the field to record audio with crystal synched film cameras for years. In fact, I prefer to use an SVHS tape with hi-fi tracks over any sort of digital recorder. The hi-fi tracks give me super fidelity on par with digital but without the problem of clipping at the high end. I can record the output of the camera's video tap on the SVHS tape for reference later on, which helps in synching the picture to the audio. Granted, there is a -.1% difference in speed but something that is never noticable unless you do a REALLY long, long take. I highly recommend using video in the field to record location audio. Portable SVHS decks are a dime a dozen on ebay now; cheaper than DAT and Nagras any day of the week and far more versatile.

Roger

[jessh]

thanks man,
do you know anything of the canon514XL?
thats my num1 nominee...i think i'm gonna but it...i just need more opinios from people like you.
thanks,
Mattan, Israel.

most of Canon's super8 cameras would be a good choice, so you may want to look at some of their other models as well, I have used an 814 Electronic and a 518 SV. both very good cameras, I just won a 310XL on ebay, while it would not be the best choice for a primary camera they are suposadly great for low light situations and the specs back that up(1.0 lens, 220degree shutter).
The Electronic models are a good choice if you hope to get setup for sync sound at some point because they have a flash sync socket that can be used with a sync pulse generator to do acurate sync sound recording.

~Jess

[Konton]

I have recently updated the super8mm.org website and did a little more writing on the subject of "Synchro Sound." The site is still in development, but let me know if the information on this page helps any:
http://super8mm.org/sound.html

I'm still working on the "Editing and Telecine" section which currently shows previous information from "The Bench." I plan to place information there only in relation to digital as contemporary editing is very difficult these days to try and achieve.

Konton

[Mattan]

Nice website, i love the menu, easy to use and lots of info...but the pictures are familiar...
anyway soon when i'll own some equipment to try things at home, i'm sure i'll understand more of what written there
I think i'm gonna buy a nizo model or maybe a canon514 these models seems like the best choise.

CU

Mattan.

[Pedro]

Hi Mattan,
for sound use, make shure that you buy a camera that supports 24 fps. Many silent Canons don´t.
For first trys, you can use "wild syncing". Record the sound together with the film on a separate audio recorder, such as MD or DAT, or even a recording walkman will work for the first experiments. When using a camcorder for sound recording as suggested, make shure to use a HIFI model, not a standard one. Standard camcorders record the audio analouge, and as the tape speed is only about a half of a cassette tape, the sound quality is beyond of that what is acceptable. When transfering standard video sound afterwards to S8 soundtrack, the hiss out of the HIFI speakers even can beat the noise of the projector.

To be able to sync the scenes more or less, you should shoot a TEST SCENE: run the camera and the audio, let a friend clap his hands in front of the lens, shoot about 30 seconds and let him clap again.
Now you take a stop watch and measure exactly the time between the two claps in the audio. Run the developed film thru the projector and measure the time between the two visible claps in the film. If there is any difference to the first result, measured wiht the audio, the projector is off and sound will drift. Adjust the pitch of projector or audio device slightly and try it again. Repeat the adjustment, until the scene takes the same time in the projector and in the audio. Make shure to use always the same audio recorder for shooting and playback and the same adjustments. Now you can shoot sound scenes, even lip sync, at least as long as your test scene had been.
After fim editing with splicer + viewer, you best get it sound striped and transfer your external sound to the magnetic sound stripe of the ready edited film, add music etc...
Enjoy it!
Pedro

[Mattan]

THanks Pedro!
i have another question, has anyone of you made real movies using super8 or just film his kids and events?

Thanks,

Mattan.

[tim]

I maker short documentaries recording interesting aspects of life around here.

Sound is always added later from either recordings made at the time, or later in the same location, or from my sound archives. Unless you have a sound stage, or are very lucky, the sound recorded with film is generally either poor, of full of extraneous noise which distracts from the action.

I didn't regret the passing of sound film - it only saved me the trouble of striping.

Tim.