Hello from FILM Ferrania!

[filmferrania]

Regarding 9.5mm, DS8 and bigger spool sizes, it would be great if I could say, "Sure! Whatever you want, we can cut and perf to order!"

In fact, it is our goal to be able to say just those words - in the long run.

There are tons of things we have the potential to do... In the long run.

Between now and then, we're trying very hard to get just TWO cine products made and out into the world - 100 ASA daylight color reversal in S8/15m cartridges and 16mm/30m spools.

Then we're going to try our best to get a heavily fractured community together behind these 2 (and just 2) products.

And we need to sell lots of these two things. Not "Kodak" lots - but lots.

Otherwise, there is no long run.

That said, we're listening very closely to the community and we'll always do our best to meet customers where they want to be met. We will always look for partners who can extend what we are able to do... With regard to 16mm film, we plan to work with a few partners who can, in fact, spool to your preferred length.

For now, we've got to stay focused on making what we know we can make. All the rest is "in the long run."

[slashmaster]

Regarding 9.5mm, DS8 and bigger spool sizes, it would be great if I could say, "Sure! Whatever you want, we can cut and perf to order!"

In fact, it is our goal to be able to say just those words - in the long run.

There are tons of things we have the potential to do... In the long run.

Between now and then, we're trying very hard to get just TWO cine products made and out into the world - 100 ASA daylight color reversal in S8/15m cartridges and 16mm/30m spools.

Then we're going to try our best to get a heavily fractured community together behind these 2 (and just 2) products.

And we need to sell lots of these two things. Not "Kodak" lots - but lots.

Otherwise, there is no long run.

That said, we're listening very closely to the community and we'll always do our best to meet customers where they want to be met. We will always look for partners who can extend what we are able to do... With regard to 16mm film, we plan to work with a few partners who can, in fact, spool to your preferred length.

For now, we've got to stay focused on making what we know we can make. All the rest is "in the long run."

I can be happy with just super 8 cartridges and 100 foot 16mm to try it out. Can you tell me about the stages of it being a very wide roll cut down to as little as 8mm? How wide is it when the base is getting all its coatings put on? Does it get perfed and then split or split then perfed?

[mr8mm]

If I recall from previous discussions, S8 starts life as DS8 and then slit to 8mm. It is also possible that wide rolls are perforated with multiple s8 perforations then slit to 8mm. But I don't think the film is slit to 8mm then perforated. If Ferrania could furnished unperforated 16mm or 35mm, Customers could send to someone like Edward Nowill and have the film perforated to 2x 8mm or 2 edge 16mm. I don't believe Mr. Nowill does DS8. Wittner could perforate to DS8 or S8 but I don't know the status of his business at this time. There are others but the important thing is to get unperforated film.

When I started supplying D8mm Kodachrome about 20 years ago, i contacted someone from Kodak who was able to get 16mm 400ft unperforated Kodachrome without a cat number out the "back door" of the Colorado Manufacturing facility. I then sent to UK to be perforated by Mr. Perry, the predecessor of Mr. Nowill . Eventually Kodak said, "why are you sending to UK when we can perforate for you and give you a catalog number for your film". Those were the good old days at Kodak.

[aj]

To my knowlegde Nowill only can perforate 16mm 2R into normal/regulare 8. I.e not from 1R and not from unperforated material.

[mr8mm]

Actually I recently sent Nowill 35mm film which he slit to 16mm unperforated and then perforated to Double 8mm(Reg 8) . He can indeed perforate unperforated film to D8.---

[livio]

I'm one of those slightly on the pessimisitic side about next Ferrania stock release. I mean: will I survive enough to see that wonderful promised stock come to light? But I really hope I'm wrong.
And in case I'm wrong: can we help Ferrania to build a realistic demand curve?
Anybody can answer to a simple question: "how many reversal super8 cartridge will you buy each year for a given price? (I'm talking about NO PROCESS INCLUDED, since some of us still like DIY process).
For me the answer is:
50 USD/cart or more: 0 carts/year (it's too much, I wound't even give a try)
40 USD/cart: 1 carts/year (it's a lot, I'll just buy one cart only to give a try)
30 USD/cart: 5 carts/year (it's still expensive, and I'm well off with tri-x, so 5 per year it's enough)
20 USD/cart: 20 carts/year (it's a bargain, but I'll unlikely be able to shoot more than 20 carts per year - and I sill like b/w)
10 USD/cart: 40 carts/year: really unrealistic, but I would't know what to do with more than 40 carts each year)
This is just as a first test, only for super8 - no process. Then we can do the same for super8 - with process, then for 16mm...

[7OSE9]

Livio, good idea.
For me, all similar, only those in in bold are different.

50 USD/cart or more: 0 carts/year (it's too much, I wound't even give a try)
40 USD/cart: 1 carts/year (it's a lot, I'll just buy one cart only to give a try)
30 USD/cart: 5 carts/year (it's still expensive, and I'm well off with tri-x, so 5 per year it's enough)
20 USD/cart: 12 carts/year (I have no time for 20!)
10 USD/cart: unrealistic, yes, but at this price I would buy A LOT of cartridges!

But... the cost of developing (E6, for example, or B/W) is too important to not consider it.
It must be very competitive and could be the key! IN ADDITION to selling+development from Ferrania, there would be other users who already have a large lot of film stocks, but would make them develop from Ferrania for the low cost. It would be a great market.

[Will2]

Without processing I think Kodak has a fair price. How about $25/cart? I'd buy 12 a year at least.

Kodak Pricing:
Vision 3 50D - $25.96
Tri-X - $20.42

I'd pay $36 for Kodachrome and maybe Ektachrome 100D again...but for the new stock from Ferrania, I don't expect it to be amazing; I'll take whatever they can give in a color reversal. If it has issues I'm sure I'll love the character. But paying more than $26-30 would make me shoot more Tri-X or V3 50D which looks amazing when transferred.

I probably would pay more of a premium on 16mm since I use that projector much more often.

[Angus]

I understand pricing is not yet set, and that we have very little influence....but my hope is that the super 8 cartridges are available for less than £20 each in the UK....obviously processing costs on top of that.

But...that is just a hope. As for how the stock looks, anything is better than the colour reversal options we have available now. I'll be happy with something that gives any sort of pleasing colour image for projection...and which looks similar from roll to roll, batch to batch. I am sure that Ferrania will continue to improve their films as time goes on. If the super 8 looks nice I'll buy some 135 too. And by that I don't mean it must look like 100D...just that it looks "nice". The last version of Scotchchrome might not have been a market leader, but it hardly looked bad. I would assume that as a starting point.

[mr8mm]

Color reversal better than we have now? There is no color reversal being produced at this time for small gauge. 35mm maybe but no 16mm or 8mm. So, that being said-- anything is better than nothing.

Realizing that 16mm is easier to produce than S8 in a cartridge, I hope Ferrania will send out the samples of the 16mm without waiting to produce super 8 in a cartridge. We were promised samples two years ago. I would like to see what Ferrania can produce. I would be happy with a Super 8 pancake and load the cartridge myself. I take my hat off to those working to produce film at Ferrania. No easy task.

[7OSE9]

Color reversal better than we have now? There is no color reversal being produced at this time for small gauge. 35mm maybe but no 16mm or 8mm. So, that being said-- anything is better than nothing.

True. I would buy any reversal color, at a good price.Also of the same quality of the Wittenchrome 200D (indeed not excellent, or "particular").

@At all: in your opinion, what is a competitive price for the development of the Super 8 15m cartridge? And for development of 16mm 30m? I mean a reversal color and a b/w.

[filmferrania]

Hello all,

We just posted our latest update: http://www.filmferrania.it/news/2016/ivanos-world

Regarding pricing, I thank you all for your input because of course we're listening to the community regarding our pricing!

We've been hovering around a target price that we think everyone will love, but we simply don't yet know what a single cartridge will actually cost from factory to warehouse shelf. We've got some "ballpark" quotes, but until we are ready to deliver pancakes for finishing, it's all speculative.

So for now, enjoy the update - and feel free to share your dream pricing!

[Angus]

Loving Ivano's Oettler P1200 electro-mechanical balance. I used something very similar until 2012.

[filmferrania]

This week's update: http://www.filmferrania.it/news/2016/in-the-loop

[filmferrania]

MAJOR update today: http://www.filmferrania.it

It's not Super8 or 16mm yet - but it's on the horizon!!