Should I jump in the S8 bandwagon?

Post by **S8 Booster** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 11:40 am

Just a few viewpoints.

Film is human, it is organic, it is art. Digital is not - it is [DIGITAL] artificially pixified.

Some of my friends are professional photgraphers. They accept digital imaging for the sake of speed and conveninence but not for the look. They describe the images - although good - as "dead". Their professional digital cameras are not cheap! and their specs are way over any digital motion imaging system.

All of them use digital and film gear at work but film only for private photographing.

So, for the sake of the look, only film is film.

On resolution issues it seems to be accepted on this board that it is somewhere between 850-1250 horisontal lines for Super8 - in reality more than enough and better than any MiniDV format. The film images look softer though, possibly because they have a lot more colour depth (Bits) than DV and I believe any digital image capturing system. Lower contrast impression, more colour depth but higher resolution for film that is.

R

Post by **Patrick** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 2:03 pm

I agree with those who say that there is no harm in having both a super 8 camera and a video camera and use both. Each format has it's own strengths and weaknesses so use each accordingly in the right situation. A really good super camera can be had inexpensively nowadays (unless of course it is a Beaulieu!) Food for thought.

Post by **S8 Booster** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 2:42 pm

Agree but personally I have been from S8 to Video and back to S8 (For good or at least film for good if S8 disintegrates). Although i have a MiniDV cam of reasonable quality there is no way I am going to use it for filmmaking anymore.

The MDV is used in job situations for documentation only for which it is outstanding. Example: I can write and send e-mail directly via my cellular/bluetooth and attach mpeg videos and jpg photos. This way I can communicate worldwide on site with other engineers.

Truly great as such but not the thing for filmmaking.

R

Post by **Angus** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 2:45 pm

synthnut wrote:Hia,
I agree that Super8 is not really an direct replacement for the video. But I think that you just exemplified the difference. How often are you likely to view that amount of tape???

And what the hell are you gonna play it on in 20 years time....assuming the magnetic signal is still strong enough to read?

Post by **focusgroup** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 4:04 pm

Dave

Thank you for sharing a well considered professional opinion.

George

pelluet · Post by **pelluet** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 4:39 pm

7.10 this morning a little yellow packet dropped through my letter box containing the 3 Ã‚Â½ minute Kodachrome record of a day on the beach about three weeks ago with some friends and their children. DidnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t have time to set up the projector this morning because I had to leave for work at 7.30 so am now looking forward to getting home this evening and getting everything set up so that I can run the film through a couple of times and check how I and the camera did.

On Saturday my friends will be coming round and will want to see the film, the kiddies will be excited by the darkening of the room, the setting up of the projector and the big white screen. I know they will ask for it to be shown again, at least twice and, whilst the little home cinema is set up there will be requests to see some more short films of days on the beach, picnics and such and may be a couple of Disney 200fters.

This is magic.

Say what you like about pixels mini dvs and Sony super boxes.

If itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s not super 8 itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s not magic!

Mike

Post by **avortex** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:27 pm

You nearly made me cry!

It's such a thrill to wait for the developed film... You're right: MAGIC.

Post by **MovieMaker** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 8:01 pm

Tomorrow IÃ‚Â´m going on a short trip to the Austrian alps with my son and until the last two years I would have grabbed my miniDV cam and shoot at least one 30 minute tape. Then place it to the others for the time when I retire and have the time to edit it. If they are still watchable...

Two years later IÃ‚Â´m taking my Nikon R10 (or my Nizo 6080 or my Canon 814 XLS, or...) and three K40Ã‚Â´s with me and shoot some scenes ("Sound of Music"-style ?) over the next four days. Final cut will be around 7 minutes - perfect!

Because I love the look of Super-8, love prepping my home cinema and love the look and feel of the big picture on the screen.

I also want to get some good footage of my son that he someday can watch with his grandchildren on one of my projectors....

MovieMaker

Post by **focusgroup** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 12:20 am

All this celluloid poetry is making me a little ill. Lol.

But seriously, Pictures of your kids are precisely what video is perfect for. I have some fantastic stuff of my kids when they were really small. The sound of their voices and family interactions with them is great. I dont know why so many of you consider visual recording as more important than sound.

I have all the footage on S8 of when I was a little kid and its really fun but frankly, I wish there had been a whole lot more of it and I really miss hearing the sound of my deceased father and grandparents voices. These old films were all shot on mos cameras.

And re: playing back stuff and digital changing, these are frankly not valid points and frivolous arguments. Binary is here to stay and it will eventually totally replace convention film - whether I like it or not (and I dont like it). There will be MORE machines to play back this old stuff than there ever was for 8mm. More of this equipment is available and alot of it has a much better build quality than 8mm stuff.

Video is a wonderful tool for quickly recording our personal lives. The look of video is every bit as unique as super 8 - the problem is that its inundated our lives. Perhaps soon new technology will totally eliminate video. Then we will have the video filmshooting website with people bemoaning the loss of their beloved medium.

And hey, turning off the lights to watch a home movie is fun, Sometimes however I like to keep the lights on - just the same way as having sex.

George

Post by **woods01** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 1:06 am

Hey Dave what is the name of your 48 hour film? I was involved with a
team this year too. But guess this, instead of video we shot it all on B&W
16mm, we processed it with a G-3 tank over the course of 10 hours. Its
called Beauty Sleep and is being screened tonight. And after going
through all that work I will probably never attempt something like that
again! Our movie turned out okay, its a sleepy beauty rip off in 5 minutes.
But I know it would have been a lot better if we shot on video. But it is
certainly a unique looking film in all its scratchy grainy glory! Our director
is a bit of an experiementalist so he is keen on using oddball formats like
S8 and pixelvision. Hand processing is a viable way of developing film but
after this past weekend, using a G3 under such time limits is frankly
nuts! ](*,)

Post by **MovieMaker** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:05 am

focusgroup wrote:All this celluloid poetry is making me a little ill. Lol.

I have all the footage on S8 of when I was a little kid and its really fun but frankly, I wish there had been a whole lot more of it and I really miss hearing the sound of my deceased father and grandparents voices. These old films were all shot on mos cameras.

George

I do have some films I shot when I was 12 or so of my grandparents, both deceased now. All shot with my first cam, a Nizo Integral 5 (that acually bought my grandma for me out of her household cash) without sound.
Today when I watch the films I still hear their voices (NO, IÃ‚Â´m not that boy from the "Sixth Sense"

). I concentrate on the pictures and imagine other situations with them, know their "lines", in which mood they were on that day and remember them in general.
If it were with live sound I would hear the same sentences over an over again and would re-live only one situation again. Without sound (but with a giant picture on the silver screen instead) I remember their whole personality.
Same with photos: When you look at them your mind instantly gives you an overall feel of that occasion - without being distracted by sound.

ThatÃ‚Â´s why I shoot mostly Super-8 nowadays and record some "athmosphere" on the tracks later.

I also shot the first steps of my son on Video-8, four years later the tape showed some horizontal lines in the picture though I have stored it appropriately and rewound it once a year. Too bad that I didnÃ‚Â´t use my Super-8 at that time....

MovieMaker

Post by **S8 Booster** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 9:57 am

focusgroup wrote:All this celluloid poetry is making me a little ill. Lol.

But seriously, Pictures of your kids are precisely what video is perfect for.
George

Totally disagree:

I have shot Super8 for over 20 years but also video from 1987 V8 and Hi8 since the mid 90s and more recently MiniDV..

For homemovies I shot a lot of films of my first child, now 18. My youngest one I also shot on video for the past 2-3 years and last autumn I evaluated a switch to MiniDV cam.

However, for some reason I started to sort all my old S8 films, projected them and I got so astonished by the difference in image quality and I mean QUALITY that I felt it like a crime to continue to shoot my youngest child on video.

Some later I had the opportunity to compare a 3 Chip DV cam footage projected alongside with S8 projection and the S8 was to me, SUPERIOR and for most of the other people watching there too.

The only drawback is the lack of soundstriped film but silent will do anyway.

To me the total imagery, the impression, the texture and the ++++++ and on gives a totally different feel of space and dimention when I watch S8 projected compared to watching video - projected or TV.

And besides, working with film is a very nice hobby and to me watching the projected rich excellent colour big size image is magic.

A big vaste of money for Slow progress and no enduring technology DV is to me.

Maybe I am getting old but no more video for me.

Even though I prefer the S8 projected there are excellent transfer to video services which takes good care of the S8 quality even when played back on TV.

R

Post by **Angus** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 10:20 am

Back in the 1960's my late grandfather shot 8mm film of his grandkids (my cousins).

The only reason this footage looks like new, can be shown without copying to some other format, has picture quality superior to any amateur gear available today is because it was shot on 8mm film.

As somebody else said, darkening the room, setting up the projector and having your own mini cinema is a real family experience. Young kids DO appreciate it. Hell I work at a school and older kids appreciate what super 8 can do.

Post by **John Clancy** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 2:27 pm

Kodachrome Super 8 is vibrant. The colours are reminiscent of technicolor and providing you have a good lens on the camera I find the images as sharp as anything I've seen filmed on video.

I have Kodachrome of myself, when I was 2 years old on a family trip to Broomfield Park, Palmers Green, North London and it could have been shot yesterday. The fact that it is 38 years old is only given away by all the smart way all the people are dressed. This 50ft was a test reel by my father as he'd just purchased a Prinz silent Super 8 camera. Thankfully he carried on filming until my brother and I were grown up at which point we took over. My whole life is recorded on Super 8. If it had have been video no doubt much of it would have turned to dust by now.

Post by **Dave Hardy** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 6:00 am

Hi Woods01,

Very impressive processing for a Morse G3 Tank. I know how harrd it is to ge3t even developing cranking those handles back & forth all night as I had experience using one of those tanks about 15 yrs ago. The russian spiral tank is a lot more user friendly.

The film I edited was called GAP & was shownn about 6:30. If you were there at that time, it was the one with bust scene & the cop car at the end.

All the best inn regard to the Gala Xcreening awards Sat. night.

Dave