Does anyone here glue magnetic tape to films?

[slashmaster]

I want to lean how to add magnetic soundtracks to films. Looking for any guidance on how to do it. If you don't have the tape that's meant for it, is it realistic to cut down tape from audio or videotape? Would it be realistic to add magnetic sound to double perf 16mm?

[sciolist]

I've used a Paillard Bolex motorized striping machine made by Weberling. It produces good results and is fairly simple to use. Using interchangeable sprocket wheels, it'll stripe both regular 8mm and Super 8. Weberling made a variety of striping machines, some of which apply a balance stripe as well as a main sound stripe. There are even commercial machines made by Weberling that mill a groove in the acetate to receive the stripe. Balfour and Magnetone also made striping machines.

The laminated stripe is just 0.8mm in width, so cutting it by hand from audio or video tape would be difficult if not impossible (the balance stripe is a mere 0.45mm in width).

Wittner Cinetec used to sell the stripe and adhesive. I'm not sure they still do.

[slashmaster]

I've used a Paillard Bolex motorized striping machine made by Weberling. It produces good results and is fairly simple to use. Using interchangeable sprocket wheels, it'll stripe both regular 8mm and Super 8. Weberling made a variety of striping machines, some of which apply a balance stripe as well as a main sound stripe. There are even commercial machines made by Weberling that mill a groove in the acetate to receive the stripe. Balfour and Magnetone also made striping machines.

The laminated stripe is just 0.8mm in width, so cutting it by hand from audio or video tape would be difficult if not impossible (the balance stripe is a mere 0.45mm in width).

Wittner Cinetec used to sell the stripe and adhesive. I'm not sure they still do.

Nice! So did you get a consistent result throughout you films? Did it lave any bumps or squeeze excess glue into the picture area? Yeah, cutting video or audio tape down to .8 or .45 would be tough. I'm wondering if it would work out better to first glue the tape on so it overhangs, then cut the excess off after it dries. Did not know about machines that mill a groove first, wonder what kind of cutting wheel they used for that?

[sciolist]

So did you get a consistent result throughout you films? Did it lave any bumps or squeeze excess glue into the picture area?

Yes, results with the Weberling machine were consistent. The cement/glue is composed of two parts acetone and one part dioxane, as I recall. It's very thin and fast-drying, so there's really no risk of any excess spreading beyond the stripe. Super 8 films up to eight hundred feet in length that I striped with this machine in the late 1970s have shown no delamination. They still play fine.

[Henry]

I am using the machine Bolex DS 240, an excellent machine and I am doing this for more than 10 years. Tape (Orwo) and cement is selling ffr-film in Germany. When I use Orwo tape I made the following experience: Here in Austria we nearly have 140 volts and then after glueing I was able to pull the narrow track (0.45 mm) away again. But if I use an adjusting transformer ( I don`t know how the word in English - I can choose with it alternating current from 0V to 200V ) at 115 volts, then the balancing track shows no delamination . I also use Agfa F5 tape ( the best, but no more available, little remainders at Wittner Cinetec ), this had shown no delamination even when Bolex DS 240 is operated at 240 V. Audio or videotape cannot be used. The magnetic tape for films has to be Acetat.

[Henry]

Oh,sorry,
too early in the morning.
In Austria we have just about 240 volts and I glue the Orwo tape at the film with the Bolex maschine and the Grundig transformer at 215 volts ( at that transformer I can choose the alternating current from 0V up to 250 V ).

[slashmaster]

So did you get a consistent result throughout you films? Did it lave any bumps or squeeze excess glue into the picture area?

Yes, results with the Weberling machine were consistent. The cement/glue is composed of two parts acetone and one part dioxane, as I recall. It's very thin and fast-drying, so there's really no risk of any excess spreading beyond the stripe. Super 8 films up to eight hundred feet in length that I striped with this machine in the late 1970s have shown no delamination. They still play fine.

Nice! So you spliced together about 16 cartridges worth for an 800 footer, then striped it all in one session? Guess you used a cement splicer? Any problems at the spliced joint where the films overlap?

[slashmaster]

I am using the machine Bolex DS 240, an excellent machine and I am doing this for more than 10 years. Tape (Orwo) and cement is selling ffr-film in Germany. When I use Orwo tape I made the following experience: Here in Austria we nearly have 140 volts and then after glueing I was able to pull the narrow track (0.45 mm) away again. But if I use an adjusting transformer ( I don`t know how the word in English - I can choose with it alternating current from 0V to 200V ) at 115 volts, then the balancing track shows no delamination . I also use Agfa F5 tape ( the best, but no more available, little remainders at Wittner Cinetec ), this had shown no delamination even when Bolex DS 240 is operated at 240 V. Audio or videotape cannot be used. The magnetic tape for films has to be Acetat.

So 140 volts is a little too much for your film striper? I'll bet a long extension cord would also help.
Did not know audio or videotape can't be used. Why not? Glue doesn't stick? What about on mylar based films? Can I glue audio or video tape to that?

[sciolist]

So you spliced together about 16 cartridges worth for an 800 footer, then striped it all in one session? Guess you used a cement splicer? Any problems at the spliced joint where the films overlap?

Well, it was more than sixteen cartridges, but the end result fit on an 800-foot reel. The capacity of the Weberling N8/S8 striper is only 400-feet, so there's a brief MOS 'intermission' mid-reel. All of the splices were made with the Bolex beveled-edge cement splicer. Although there's overlap at the splices, there's no difference in the thickness of the film at the splice because of the beveled edges (and, consequently, no problems).

[slashmaster]

So you spliced together about 16 cartridges worth for an 800 footer, then striped it all in one session? Guess you used a cement splicer? Any problems at the spliced joint where the films overlap?

Well, it was more than sixteen cartridges, but the end result fit on an 800-foot reel. The capacity of the Weberling N8/S8 striper is only 400-feet, so there's a brief MOS 'intermission' mid-reel. All of the splices were made with the Bolex beveled-edge cement splicer. Although there's overlap at the splices, there's no difference in the thickness of the film at the splice because of the beveled edges (and, consequently, no problems).

I know what you mean, you edited out some of it. So did you put on 2 soundtracks? Or a soundtrack and a balance stripe? Did you put on one at a time or both at the same time?

[Angus]

Firstly I doubt any amateur home users have the slitting equipment to take wider tape and slit it to the correct width for cine film.

If you did, then basic ferric audio cassette tape or reel to reel tape might work.

Video tape will not work as it is designed to take a completely different type of signal. In technical terms it is biased very differently to audio tape and saturates very early. You could record a signal onto it with an audio head designed for standard audio tape but the replay would be very poor and quiet (it's been tried).

What you need is a striping machine as described, and magnetic stripe tape which may still be available though I am not sure.

[slashmaster]

Firstly I doubt any amateur home users have the slitting equipment to take wider tape and slit it to the correct width for cine film.

If you did, then basic ferric audio cassette tape or reel to reel tape might work.

Video tape will not work as it is designed to take a completely different type of signal. In technical terms it is biased very differently to audio tape and saturates very early. You could record a signal onto it with an audio head designed for standard audio tape but the replay would be very poor and quiet (it's been tried).

What you need is a striping machine as described, and magnetic stripe tape which may still be available though I am not sure.

Thanks Angus! Yeah, slitting audio tape down to the .8mm and .45mm that you need would be tough. Bet it would be easier to do with 16mm though. I need to make a 16mm sound film and I'm thinking this would be easier than trying to get optical sound right. Do you happen to know how wide it's supposed to be for 16? Did not know I couldn't use videotape, thanks for saving me from learning the hard way, probably would have tried a vhs tape first.

[sciolist]

I know what you mean, you edited out some of it. So did you put on 2 soundtracks? Or a soundtrack and a balance stripe? Did you put on one at a time or both at the same time?

The Weberling striper I used in the 1970s could only apply the main stripe (I've still got two of these stripers). I've also got a Weberling Duo-Sound DS 240 striper that applies a main and balance stripe at the same time. It's a fairly recent acquisition and I've not used it yet. As another contributor to this thread mentioned, magnetic stripe and cement is available from FFR-Film in Germany (http://www.ffr-film.de/eng-content-home.html).

[slashmaster]

I know what you mean, you edited out some of it. So did you put on 2 soundtracks? Or a soundtrack and a balance stripe? Did you put on one at a time or both at the same time?

The Weberling striper I used in the 1970s could only apply the main stripe (I've still got two of these stripers). I've also got a Weberling Duo-Sound DS 240 striper that applies a main and balance stripe at the same time. It's a fairly recent acquisition and I've not used it yet. As another contributor to this thread mentioned, magnetic stripe and cement is available from FFR-Film in Germany (http://www.ffr-film.de/eng-content-home.html).

Oh!.. Hmmmmm. Only one side and no balance stripe? Sounds like that could a problem? How does it roll up onto the reel? I guess one side of the film gets pushed closer to the lens than the other. What do you do? Correct it by turning the screen at an angle when you play that film?

[sciolist]

Oh!.. Hmmmmm. Only one side and no balance stripe? Sounds like that could a problem? How does it roll up onto the reel? I guess one side of the film gets pushed closer to the lens than the other. What do you do? Correct it by turning the screen at an angle when you play that film?

A lot of folks seem to fret about this, but I've not found the lack of a balance stripe creates any difficulties. I guess the depth of focus at the projector gate is adequate, because I've never noticed any softness on one side or the other.