Editing 18fps with 25fps Beta video

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 1:47 pm

Hi,
have just bought some Super8 cameras and have started shooting. Most of them shoot 18fps not 24. Just wondering if anyone can explain how it works when it comes to editing them on an AVID or similar, especially when integrated with stuff shot on Beta or Digibeta (PAL) at 25fps?

Thanks.

Post by **crimsonson** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 4:42 pm

you will need to tranfer the footage with somekind of pulldown (a process in which fields or frames are doubled in order to increase the frame rate).

18fps tranfered to 25 or 29.97 will look jerky - I strongly suggest shooting in 24/25. However if you are looking for a certain look - go right ahead.

With editing it - here in America - our public telenvision network - PBS - often show a lot of documentary with mixed source footage. Actually they shoot video using HD and mix it with a lot of archive film footage.

You will not be shoot S8 film, edit in video and cut the master of the original S8 film since S8 does not offer timecode, edge code, etc like 16, S16 and 35mm.

Roger Evans aka Moviestuff offers a low cost tranfer to miniDV or BetaSP. However he is NTSC based. He is still trying to resolve the pixel dimension thing for PAL customers.

Your other options is contacting Andreas (host of this site)- he has his own tranfer system - maybe you can come up with a deal with him.
Of course there is always Rank tranfer.

YouTube · Post by **wahiba** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 5:01 pm

If you just video the projected film and save as a video file it will make no difference. (Well i doesn't for me!)
If you are using some exotic system like cinetel, then I will pass.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 5:16 pm

thanks for replies.. i was planning on just getting it telecined here in ireland, but was really just wondering in advance how that is going to work being shot on 18. would they automatically use that pulldown device u mentioned crimsonson? and does that look ok? not really going for any jerkier of a look than the innate jerky look of s8! Thanks.

Post by **crimsonson** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 5:22 pm

You will have to tell them that you want pulldown instead of being sped up. If you ever saw old B&W footage (circa 20 and 30s) that looks jerky but not sped up - that i what is going to look like.

If you sped it up - it will look like - well - old 1920s stuff.

You should really do 24 fps.

YouTube · Post by **wahiba** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 5:27 pm

How much are they charging for the telecine?

A lot of them just use a projector and camcorder with results little different from what one can do at home.

Post by **jukkasil** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 6:06 pm

"Hi,
have just bought some Super8 cameras and have started shooting. Most of them shoot 18fps not 24. Just wondering if anyone can explain how it works when it comes to editing them on an AVID or similar, especially when integrated with stuff shot on Beta or Digibeta (PAL) at 25fps"

Here is my version, how to make 18 fps material to be in normal speed at 25 fps, when the material is transfered with Workprinter.

1. Old film from 70's transfered with WP, speed is faster because material is shot with 18 fps and now it's playing at 25 fps (PAL).

http://www.sorb-i-tol.com/huvipuisto1.mpg

2. Same film after slowed the speed down 28 % (18/25 = 0.72), now it looks normal. I use Canopus speed controller for slow motion effect.

http://www.sorb-i-tol.com/huvipuisto1hidas.mpg

More examples I have done, you can find from this topic:

http://www.8mm.filmshooting.com/scripts ... =2169#2169

I also started to offer transfer service from 8 mm film to mini-dv format for PAL-users at price 3 Euro/minute (before I have transfered material only for clients inside of Finland) and I'll put also english written web-site online very soon.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 6:34 pm

wahiba, i'd want it mastered on Beta/Digi so that kindof rules out doing a home jobbie, and i'd be editing on AVID so would need to get proper timecode sorted out...
not sure how much, got some done a few years back, think it works out at about 150Euro per hour or something but then I have a few contacts so maybe that is industry rate..

anyone tried those telecine machines you can pick up on Ebay, straight to Video?

Post by **crimsonson** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 7:58 pm

"and i'd be editing on AVID so would need to get proper timecode sorted out... "

As I said before there is no TC support for Super 8. You will not be able to do a conform later.
If you have ability to edit in a Avid and use Digi Beta then might as well spend money to get the best quality out of your image - Rank it!

Just tell em them to do pulldown.

"anyone tried those telecine machines you can pick up on Ebay, straight to Video?"

Horrible - I would rather spend on Roger's Workprinter - better image quality, no frame sharing, etc.

Nicolai · Post by **Nicolai** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 10:46 pm

I suggest having the film transferred at the speed of 25 fps PAL and to correct the framerate in post-production. Already mentioned: Canopus delivers some useful tools with their DV boards and you can do very nice looking slowmos with them.

Or you could use slowmotion form dynapel: http://www.dynapel.com/private/sm_overview.htm
It's cheap and works quite well. And the video doesn't look jerky (normally ;-) ).

Good luck,

Nicolai

Filmshooting

Editing 18fps with 25fps Beta video

Editing 18fps with 25fps Beta video

solution...somehow ??