Tell me more about DS8

Post by **Kurt8** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 10:21 am

I've been seeing a lot of posts recently about various projects for the DS8 format. Maybe I should just search the archives, but I'd like to hear more about this "different" way of shooting Super 8 and the advantages and equipment involved.

Thanks.

Kurt

YouTube · Post by **wahiba** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 10:54 am

It is 16mm wide film but perforated on both edges with super-8 sprockets. I first saw it in the USSR in the mid 1970s, although it might have originally been East German as the packets on sale were marked Dopple Super-8.

As I was then a poor student on a subsidised trip i could not afford to buy any kit or film. The only real regret of the trip was I did not put Ã‚Â£10 on with the book makers on the collapse of the Soviet Union before the end of the century. I reckon I might have got 10 000 to 1 in 1974. It was so obviously useless that I was amazed it had lasted so long, the system that is.

I assume the eastern block introduced it for their home markets so that they could claim to be keeping up with the Americans, but only had to modify their cine products a little.

As far as I know it was never marketed in the UK, I do not know about the rest of the world. The Bolex and Kodak large spools I think was an early attempt to use super-8 for commercial purposes, especially TV news before the days of portable video.

Post by **marc** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 12:22 pm

I am guessing that it was invented by Bolex. Not long after super 8 was introduced, Bolex offered conversions on their H8 Reflex cameras. It probably did not take them long to realize that with a few modifications, the H8 could easily be converted to handle this new, slightly larger version of 8mm.

Post by **Lunar07** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 2:15 pm

wahiba wrote: .................................
I assume the eastern block introduced it for their home markets so that they could claim to be keeping up with the Americans, but only had to modify their cine products a little.
...............................

The Eastern Europeans and the Russians are **pioneers** of Film as Art and for what we understand as modern EDITING. They did not have to claim anything in this field for cheap political gains.

Post by **Kurt8** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 5:30 pm

So are the images really a lot more steady than Super 8 from cartridges? I have a nice Bolex H16 - are there any companies that still do the conversion to DS8 today?

Thanks!

Kurt

Post by **portosuper8** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 7:11 pm

Double super8 was invented by Pathe, iÃ‚Â´ve read it somewhere. They developed many double-super8 cameras, and were the first to use this format. It was considered then semi-professional in comparison with super8, becuase it was also possible to shoot 120m reels of film (about 20 minutes in 24fps) with each side. It was a great inovation, followed by the manufacturing of fantastic cameras, like the elmo C-300, the Canos Ds8 and other, like Pathe. I've seen one ds8 Pathe for sale in Paris some time ago, but it wasn't in good shape.

Best Regards

Post by BK » Sat Aug 16, 2003 8:04 pm

Hello Kurt,

The first time I found out about the DS8 format was in a Canon super 8 catalogue in the late 70's, and right at the back of the pages was the Scoopic DS8.

Advantages are many, a real "gate" instead of the plastic one. Unlimited rewind, reverse filming, longer runs. And yes, images are much steadier.

I believe that Meritex ( formerly JK Camera) still do the conversions from H8 to DS8. Here is the link:-

http://www.jkcamera.com/bolex_h16_rex.htm

I am a proud owner of a Bolex DS8 and a Canon DS8 and I'll say the Canon is the one to get for everyday filming, the Bolex for animation.

Regards,

Bill

Post by **Lunar07** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 8:55 pm

Kurt8 wrote:So are the images really a lot more steady than Super 8 from cartridges?

ANYTHING is steadier than the cartridge system

In a DS8 camera the image is steady due to the metallic pressure plate in the camera.
In fact, as far as I am concerned, a DS8 system IS the only Pro way to shoot Super8mm. Specially with a Bolex H-8 Rex converted to a DS8 due to the countless accessories that you can find.

I have a nice Bolex H16 - are there any companies that still do the conversion to DS8 today?

Why do not you get an H-8 Rex 3 or 4 and get it converted! Or you can find one on eBay from time to time although they tend to be expensive. The only place I personally know of is CamerasPro. I am sure there are other places.

YouTube · Post by **wahiba** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 4:47 pm

Regards product development in the former Eastern Block.

Problems were nothing to do with their imagination or ability to innoviate. The political system was the brake. However even with these constraints there were plenty of developments.

East Germany was often thwarted by Russian interference. While they might not have had the original idea for double super-8, they were certainly quick in introducing it as a consumer product in the mid 70s.

Give them a few more years and I think there will be a few technological surprises coming our way.

Post by **Actor** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 7:07 pm

One advantage of the Canon DS-8 (which looks like the 16mm Scoopic) is that you can impress your cast by claiming you're shooting 16mm. No really a lie since the film is 16mm wide.

Post by **MovieMaker** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 8:33 am

I just would like to share my excitement - because yesterday I got myself a Canon DS-8 from some serious (but now too old) filmmaker for just Ã¢â€šÂ¬ 150,-! Excellent condition, working light meter, perfect transport - Yeah! I just love that metallic pressure plate and the possibility to get 200 feet of Super-8 out of one 100feet spool.

I guess I spotted tears in his eyes the moment he handed it to me. I definitely understand that.

He told me that it was more and more difficult to get stock for it - I guess he isnÃ‚Â´t familiar with PaulÃ‚Â´s machine?

CanÃ‚Â´t wait to shoot my first roll of DS8. Any recommendations of filmstock to use for the first "experiment" and where to get it?

MovieMaker

Post by **Cranium** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 8:02 pm

As far as recommendations for filmstock, your options are remarkably limited to two.
One option, is to get some Kodachrome 25 from somewhere if you can find it. Word on the streets is there's no more, but I've seen prices from ~$60US to over $80US. Best film ever made, but a bit pricey for a test.
Get some Fomapan R100 from John Schwind for $15(!)
Then send it to Franklin Film Lab for processing and slitting for $17.

Then grab a beer and watch as a full ten minutes (OK, minus the bits you lost to loading in the van...) roll by on screen for only $32.

Don't go overboard with the 54fps, but do shoot something in slo-mo. You'll love it, and you'll have plenty of film left over afterwards!

DS8 rules, and you got a screaming deal.

Welcome to the family.

BTW- If anyone ever sees 200' or 400' mags for Pathe cameras, please let me know. With the prospect of Paul's perfer, I could conceivably load these now! I've got a couple relatively ignored Pathe DS8s. They don't see the use the Canon does, because they don't offer much more, and they're a bit finicky.
Well, one has the Ang. 6-90mm lens, but that's another story...