Think these Bolex mods will work?

[slashmaster]

There are 2 mods I want to do to a Bolex H16 to make it more like an EBM. Thought I'd ask if anyone in here has done it first.

The first one is get rid of the side to side play of the film in the gate. I think the EBM took care of this but I want to do it to an earlier camera. When I put a piece of film in it and move it side to side I can feel play like this https://www.facebook.com/ShildFilm/phot ... =3&theater so plan to trim it a little like this https://www.facebook.com/ShildFilm/phot ... =3&theater probably not as much as that pic shows. Then the new problem would be the spring is too stiff for it once I bend it in place so plan to trim the top off like this. https://www.facebook.com/ShildFilm/phot ... =3&theater


Oh yeah, the other mod I want to do, is counter balance the shutter. Just look at how badly unbalanced it is. https://www.facebook.com/ShildFilm/phot ... =3&theater I'll bet it causes a little microscopic blur with the longer lenses. I know that when the EBM came out they had taken care of this. I don't have much room to put a counterweight on so was thinking about cutting another shutter out of carbon fiber if I can find a piece the right thickness.

[doug]

Was this just a problem with the earlier round-base models, or does this mean that all the later models excluding the EBM had this design fault ?
Personally I have had good experiences with all the H16 models, including a (later) round-base camera that has such good registration that I modified it to ultra-16. Only one quite old round-base I currently have does have a bad horizontal unsteadiness. I'm assuming it must be the side spring not working as it should, but rather unsure how to deal with this properly.
Regarding the shutter, I have never noticed any problems with blur, and would like to know if you or anyone else have encountered this.

If I was you I wouldn't try to alter anything unless a problem is apparent.

[slashmaster]

I think all the roundbase ones are like that. This page here is what makes me believe this http://www.city-net.com/~fodder/bolex/h ... 16ebm.html It talks about how good the EBM registration is and then at the bottom talks about the "Vibrationless rotary shutter". Have not found pictures online of one disassembled so don't know exactly what they did.

But anyway with every super 8 camera I have ever seen there are 2 spring loaded pins on the non sprocketed side of the film to push the film against the sprocketed side. So you generally have very good horizontal registration. You have these springs on the two h16's I own but they won't push in far enough to hold the film against the other side, It only closes down to 16.05mm but the film I used was 15.95mm. So there is about .10mm of side to side play where it can hunt. Go put a piece of film in the ones you own and wiggle it side to side and tell me how much play they have in them.

[slashmaster]

Oh, by the way, I'm going to try to make a counterbalance for the shutter but there is very little room to be able to do it. I might have to settle for partially balanced unless I can find a piece of carbon fiber to make a shutter out of.

[doug]

I haven't checked the ultra-16 Bolex gate for film clearance because there's a film in it

I checked the older Bolex that I mentioned, with the bad horizontal registration, see gate photo, with a strip of film like you say . But can't say there is much of a problem with too much movement. Strange. It also has the older type of pressure pad, unlike the one in my ultra-16 camera pictured which is also a round-base (with DIY flat-base added). Not sure whether the steadiness was worse with the old pressure pads or not. As I said before, my ultra-16 Bolex has first-rate steadiness, even better than a later SBM I also use.

[slashmaster]

Been away for a while so couldn't get back to you but that one is nice and clean!

That's the kind of pressure pad I'm using. Is your Ultra 16 a double claw? Do you have a dial caliper? If so try checking the width of the film you ran through that camera, see if it's significantly undersized like 15.90mm or less. I have an elmo 16 cl projector and there are certain films that would hunt side to side big time because they had shrunken undersized or maybe weren't wide enough to begin with. That was part of the problem, the other part was the pegs which push the film sideways had gum built up around them so they didn't go in all the way, once I cleaned them the problem was solved!

[doug]

I can't quite remember the details of my ultra-16 gate, as there's still that film going through it, another 40ft or so to go. But it definitely has the newer type of pressure pad, not like the one in photo. I don't have a caliper so can't really be sure about the width of film or gate. When I did the ultra-16 mod I just scribed marks everywhere on the body so that the gate was put back in correct position. The film I'm currently using is Ektachrome 100D. I must have another look at the other Bolex with the unsteady weaving. I think I also used 100D to test it so it should have been OK. maybe there's some problem with the claw ?

[slashmaster]

If there was a lot of slop in the claw it wouldn't cause it to weave side to side, only up and down. Next time you play a film you made with that camera turn the framer way off to see the joint between the pictures and put your finger on the screen at the joint. See if it wiggles around more up and down or more side to side. Mine wiggles side to side about twice as much as it does up and down. Of course you have to make sure the projector your using has good registration before you can judge a camera with it.

Once I get the side to side play gone I'm going to work on getting some slop out of the claw too. Speaking of which the claw wheel has nothing at all to counterbalance it. If you don't know what I'm talking about here is a bad picture of my parts bolex. But you can still see it on yours without having to take it apart like that. https://www.facebook.com/GetOnTheGround ... =3&theater

[slashmaster]

Hey doug, wait a minute. I just discovered your website. Did the films shot here come from your bolex's? http://filmisfine.co/can-16mm-become-wider/

[doug]

That's right, the ultra-16 strip is from my camera I mentioned, and the regular-16 strip from the SBM. If you go to http://filmisfine.co/bolex-ultra-16-camera-sprocket/ there's a rather bad photo (though not as bad as yours :lol: ) showing the ultra-16 gate.