Kiev Alpha 16

[chrisgavin]

My 16mm camera has arrived this week!
It's the Kiev Alpha 16.

I like the idea of this camera a lot! It's apparently one of the smallest reflex 16mm cameras. The reflex function is achieved with a 45degree 'pellicle' mirror and that apparently steals 1 whole f-stop of light. 50%! It has the 'boxy' form factor of a big super 8 camera, it's got a detachable pistol grip and takes c-mount lenses. Apart from the 3 light meter batteries (I don't know of what type they are yet, but I guess these will be difficult to find these days) , this is an all clockwork/mechanical device.
The camera came with a 20mm C-mount 'Vega' lens, and I've already got a few other c-mount lenses I hope to use with it.

I saw some mention of this camera in the forum a few months back, but other than that there's not much information to be found about it.
I hope to post a bit more about this as I get good information about it, and this thread might help add to the available data about the camera for others looking this up too.

I've bought this as my first 16mm camera (after using super 8 quite a lot) and I've bought a few 100ft rolls of cheap B&W negative film which I plan to home process.
So my aim is to have some cheap DIY film-making fun with it and use it on my own 'art' projects.

The ebay seller kindly sent me a copy of the instruction manual too, although I can't read any Russian, the threading diagrams and shutter speed table are great info to have.
I'll post this info up soon.

So that's all the good stuff...

BUT...

I've loaded the camera as per the threading diagram... With the side off, I've watched the film traveling through the camera.
The feed, loops and transport of the film look OK, but the take-up reel doesn't seem to work very well.
There's some movement, but ultimately the film gathers-up as the take-up spool isn't doing its job.

The feed and take-up reels are placed next to each other (the coaxial design enables the camera to be so small) and there is a springy metal drive belt which drives the take-up spool. The take-up spool feels a bit rough if I turn it by hand, so maybe a dab of oil might help?
It looks like the feed spool isn't powered, but that the film is just pulled off by the sprocket as it's required.

I know this is a pretty rare device, but if there's anyone on here familiar with the inner workings of the Kiev Alpha 16 and can offer advice, I guess this is the place to ask : )
Thanks in advance,
Chris

[chrisgavin]

Happy Days!

I think I've figured out my 'take-up spool problem.'

kiev_alpha16_inside_002.jpg

I mistakenly thought the white lever arm inside the camera was the film footage counter mechanism... it's not, further inside the camera there's another black lever (on the feed spool) for that... The white lever arm should rest between the spools not inside the take-up spool!
With the white lever arm wrongly positioned inside the take-up spool, it hooks onto the film and effectively stops the take-up reel from turning.

The purpose of the white lever arm, seems to be to separate the two spools so they can freely rotate independently.

So the result is, I've got the camera loaded, film seems to be going through and the film loops seem to be maintained OK, so I've taped it up and we're ready to roll...

In a bid to help others, here's some useful info from the manual...

kiev_alpha16_filmpath_002.jpg

FPS - shutter speed

12 - 1/26
16 - 1/34
24 - 1/51
32 - 1/68

single frame - 1/40

I'll be shooting my first tests with this camera soon.

[mudfly9]

Looking forward to seeing the results from this. How are you going to be scanning it?

[chrisgavin]

I just thought I'd give an update here for anyone who is (or might be) interested in the Kiev Alpha 16 camera.

Over the Christmas holidays I took the camera away, hoping to shoot a few tests whilst down in Cornwall. I loaded the camera with some Kodak 2210 'Surveillance Film'.
This BW negative film is very cheap and it ought to be a suitable candidate for 'normal' DIY film BW neg processing ( like I have been doing for the Super 8 APX100 film recently). My DIY tank ought to take 16mm gauge film OK, although the spiral will only take around a 50 foot length. So for my first few tests I'll be shooting half a roll at a time.
@mudfly9 I'm not entirely sure yet how I'll digitize my 16mm film efforts yet, I'll cross that bridge later...

For the first couple of winds, all seemed to be running well... Unfortunately the camera jammed soon after. I opened the camera up to find the film was bunching after the sprocket, but before the take-up spool.
I re-loaded the film from the start, but had the same thing consistently happen, several times.
So I've written off the first 50feet or so of film just by reloading and running the film.
This was all a bit disappointing...

Over the last few days I've been looking into the problem again. It seems the take-up spool is turning constantly but that the film is only loosely forming inside it. After a few winds of the spring motor, this loose bunch of film is spilling out from the take-up spool and causing the jam.

Tonight I put a little oil inside the axle that holds the spools, I then reloaded the film and made really sure that the film end was attached tightly inside the take-up spool. I've also got some metal daylight load spools now to replace the plastic one I was using before...
I've run the camera again for a couple of spring winds now, and felt inside the take-up spool... For the first time, the film now seems to be winding properly i.e. nice and tightly around the take-up spool.
So hopefully after a false start I can get out again soon and shoot the rest of this first roll...

[avortex]

This looks like a common problem.
I gave up with mine, after eternal trouble with film jams and unstable image.
You can see an example of my footage here (it's a timelapse):
https://vimeo.com/83510539

Anyway, I'll try the different recipes that both of you give in this great thread. Thanks!!

[Pj]

I'm sorry to hear about your experiences, I know when a camera doesn't work right it's very frustrating, but keep trying. I have a Kiev Alpha 16mm too and was expecting it to be problematic, but I've been surprised, I'm having the film scanned and will put it online on Monday.

Pav

[Pj]

Some tests with the Kiev Alpha, not great images, that's not because of the camera. The picture is grainy, there was no lighting, these shots have not been colour corrected and there are some soft focus shots, but the image is pretty steady from this simple camera.

https://vimeo.com/84762211

Pav

[Mana]

https://vimeo.com/84762211

Pav

Linky no worky

[carllooper]

I love Vimeo's explanation:

Page not found
Sorry, there is no video here.
Either it was deleted or it never existed in the first place. Such are the mysteries of the Internet.

[Mmechanic]

Alright, more than two years later—

Let me join the club, I have just purchased an Alpha Kiev 16, serial number 245-72. Pellicle intact, mechanism working, a Vega 20-2.0 on it which is a five-element lens similar to the Zeiss Biometar of 1953 but with a thick fourth element.

I am also intrigued by the concept. This is really the most compact and above all lightest reflex viewing camera for 16mm film. 1300 grams!

Not yet fully acquainted with the eyepiece, I think I want to give the camera a thorough overhaul, it doesn’t seem to stay set. But that is the best ground glass I have ever seen, finer grained than what one gets from Beaulieu, Paillard, Pathé or even Arnold & Richter!

On the negative side we have noise and a lot of plastic. The knurled speed setting ring is cracked in two places. Will have to replace it by a fresh one made of, say, aluminum.

The old time oblong housing, the Soviets made a copy of the 1930 Ciné-Kodak K. It stands totally steady on the tripod and it’s got a low optical axis, only two inches above ground. I love that for macro shots.

[Krasnogorskistan]

Hi all,

I've seen the Kiev Alpha 16 16mm footage that PJ (above) has posted on his personal site, just wondering if anybody else has actually had any success with this little camera (and not posted it online)?

Many thanks,

K