New Danish Super 8 camera to debut in 2014

[PyrodsTechnology]

reflex wrote
Nobody in their right mind would shoot a documentary on Super 8 in 2013. This camera is more likely to be used as a B-cam for music videos and projects that would benefit from a few intercut "real film" sequences.[/quote]

why on earth one should not shoot a documentary on S8 ??? imagine a wedding ceremony... since this is a pin registered camera, it should delivers better registration than an already steady DS8 camera, and believe me, those shoots are easily intercutable with 16mm.

[jose luis villar]

this project is awesome. BUT you have to pull out the film from cartridge and load it on the pressure plate, so it is not so quickly as to change a cartridge on a classic S8 camera . Now immagine to shoot a documentary or whatsoever where you have to replace rapidly a cartridge every 2,5 minutes...

Nobody in their right mind would shoot a documentary on Super 8 in 2013. This camera is more likely to be used as a B-cam for music videos and projects that would benefit from a few intercut "real film" sequences.

S8 today can be,





or it may be that other,





Now I can not show movies, but soon you will see on Vimeo. Vision3 50d with 4008 Bealieu vs Ektachrome 100d with Canon 814 xls.


Congratulations to Lasse and his team for making this possible, surely I will be a possible client and I offer to test your camera in a professional production.

[carllooper]

A documentary on Super8?

It all depends on what is being assumed by the word "documentary". If by "documentary" one has in mind something that can't be shot on Super8 then of course it can't. In the same way that if one has in mind by the term "painting" an oil painting, then of course one can't paint such a painting using water colour. But that should just go without saying. Otherwise all that's being suggested is that water colour paintings are not paintings. Or indeed, reversing the assumptions: that oil paintings are not paintings. Either of which would be quite difficult to defend. Especially now in 2013, if not at any time previously.

But otherwise I can imagine all sorts of documentaries (or paintings!) that could be shot on Super8. Plenty. Indeed, the vast majority of work shot on Super8 since it's invention could be regarded as a documentary of some sort.

Or is the term "documentary" just owned by those paintings that can't be shot on Super8? And if so, then it's just a matter of a Super8 filmmaker taking ownership of the terms: making them their own.

And if it otherwise takes someone "not in their right mind" to do so, then at the very least, that is all that would be required.

C

[marc]

I may have missed it but has anyone mentioned price yet?

[Tscan]

What frame rates and exposure times will it be capable of? Slow motion will look nice with the pin registration.

[carllooper]

What frame rates and exposure times will it be capable of? Slow motion will look nice with the pin registration.

The frame rate is programmable from 16fps to 54fps frames pr. second with crystal phase-locked-loop synchronization (source: http://www.cinematography.com/index.php ... 409&page=1 )

C

[carllooper]

I'd be keen to know if there could be an SDK made available for the camera, ie. for writing up third party software for the camera. Being both a filmmaker and a software developer (amongst other things) I can imagine all sorts of useful data overlays I'd love to write up for the digital display.

C

[carllooper]

I may have missed it but has anyone mentioned price yet?

They are "targeting a pricetag of 2.500€ euro including 25% Danish value added tax - for companies purchasing inside the european union with a valid tax number that equates to 2.000€ euro. For sales outside the european union the value added sales tax is also removed, so the total should be 2.000€ euro ($2,695 USD) " (source: http://www.cinematography.com/index.php ... 09&page=15 )

C

[PyrodsTechnology]

@ jose luis villar : your stills are awesome ! to all others : do not forget that when in motion the grain becomes less noticeable, but still giving that beloved film effect NOT replicable from whatsoever billions digicam.

[Nicholas Kovats]

Lasse,

Has your team potentially conducted testing as per the camera noise levels? The onboard digital audio recorder has great potential for double system sound recording with a simple clap board recorded/filmed at the start of a sequence. I suspect even an iPhone originated timecode jam sync would work. Is there a frame to frame relationship with the onboard digital audio?

It could be a very powerful combination to record camera originated reference audio sync in conjunction with digital time based field recordings. Then sync up the reference and external waveforms in PluralEyes software.

[aj]

I may have missed it but has anyone mentioned price yet?

They are "targeting a pricetag of 2.500€ euro including 25% Danish value added tax - for companies purchasing inside the european union with a valid tax number that equates to 2.000€ euro. For sales outside the european union the value added sales tax is also removed, so the total should be 2.000€ euro ($2,695 USD) " (source: http://www.cinematography.com/index.php ... 09&page=15 )

C

Although without lens (or monitor) how could that possibly work considering the manhours put in? It is a student project or they are on fund from somewhere?

I hope they are not shooting themselves in their feet.

[dsl15746]

Hi Carl,

I'd be keen to know if there could be an SDK made available for the camera, ie. for writing up third party software for the camera. Being both a filmmaker and a software developer (amongst other things) I can imagine all sorts of useful data overlays I'd love to write up for the digital display.

C

You'll be pleased to know that our WIFI protocol is completely open source so people can write their own apps for iPhone, Android, Windows Phone etc. and do the following commands:

The following features can be controlled via WIFI today:
â–  Start and stop recording
â–  Record X amont of frames then automatically stop
â–  Record X amount of seconds then automatically stop
â–  Shutter parking (creates blank frame on film for easy identification of new session)
â–  Shutter loading (special state for inserting new film)
â–  Recording gain adjustment (audio)
â–  Monitor volume adjustment (audio)
â–  Camera turn off

And these features will become available via future firmware upgrades:
â–  Time lapse with the following features
â–  Programmable starting time in seconds
â–  Pogrammable exposure time
â–  Programmable end of recording time
â–  Record X amount of seconds then automatically stop
â–  Record X amount of frames then automatically stop

Here's how it works and what you as an app developer has to do:

Your device has to connect to the camera hotspot dubbed "Logmar S8-xxxx" where xxxx is the last 4 digits of the camera production serial number, the camera will provide you with an IP address and from there you must open a TCP/IP socket towards the camera's IP which always is 1.2.3.4 at port 2000 then the camera will respond to you using ASCII commands.

For example you can send command (in ASCII): %FPS=29970%\r\n
that will set the frame rate to 29.970fps (NTSC rate) the frame rate command is send as a whole number but internally divided by 1000 by the camera to avoid floating point calculations.
If you send %RECORD%\r\n the camera starts recording at the previously set frame rate - while recording the camera periodically sends out the current frame number with command %FCNT=0004%\r\n - that way you can calculate the remaning or elapsed frame count, time left or feet.

Best regards
Lasse

[dsl15746]

I may have missed it but has anyone mentioned price yet?

They are "targeting a pricetag of 2.500€ euro including 25% Danish value added tax - for companies purchasing inside the european union with a valid tax number that equates to 2.000€ euro. For sales outside the european union the value added sales tax is also removed, so the total should be 2.000€ euro ($2,695 USD) " (source: http://www.cinematography.com/index.php ... 09&page=15 )

C

Although without lens (or monitor) how could that possibly work considering the manhours put in? It is a student project or they are on fund from somewhere?
I hope they are not shooting themselves in their feet.

Hi Marc,

We've spend almost 4 years developing this camera platform we have today so balancing out the man hours is not something that's feasible with the price point we have set (unless we sell several hundreds) we've funded this development entirely privately there's been no bank involvement nor investor funds - it's been an organic development which is also why it's taken the time it has.

When selling a product you are faced with the though decision in terms of pricing which is - should we sell at a high price which we possibly could command and then sell a few cameras or should we aim at selling at an afforadble price point and hopefully sell loads - we opted for the latter in hops that we could help spark a renewed interest in the Super8 format - reigniting, possibly, a new generation of film makers that until this point in time was discuraged by buying a twenty year old used camera on eBay.

We hope that making super-8 "2013" friendly in terms of camera look and feel (together with the electronics and features) people will actually start considering buying this camera over some digitial plastic camera - perhaps that's just our "pipedream".
You could say it's like a religion to us - we do not believe in "plastic fantastic" digital cameras, we believe in film - that's our "religion".

We've been confronted by many people saying the price is already too high for them to consider buying our camera but unfortunatly we cannot make it cheaper because of the scale of things - if we could start a series production with 1000 cameras in one go it could be a lot cheaper however when we manufacture a batch of say 10-50 cameras the cost is very high due to starting fees at our sub contractors that does the aluminium body works and also for the electronics.

Best regards
Lasse

[dsl15746]

Hi Mark,

Lasse,

Has your team potentially conducted testing as per the camera noise levels? The onboard digital audio recorder has great potential for double system sound recording with a simple clap board recorded/filmed at the start of a sequence. I suspect even an iPhone originated timecode jam sync would work. Is there a frame to frame relationship with the onboard digital audio?

It could be a very powerful combination to record camera originated reference audio sync in conjunction with digital time based field recordings. Then sync up the reference and external waveforms in PluralEyes software.

The camera is "crystal synchronized" so lip sync is achieved without any problems the audio is started a few miliseconds before the camera starts recording - (read excerpt from our upcoming brochure below)

The camera has a build-in stereo codec capable of recording audio onto a removable SD-CARD with 48 KHz sampling rate and 16-bit resolution stereo quality.

The camera has the following audio interfaces:
â–  3.5mm jack Line-In stereo input
â–  3.5mm jack stereo headphone output
â–  3.5mm jack mono microphone input
■ 1/4” jack mono microphone input
â–  XLR mono input with true +48V phantom power support

The XLR +48V phantom powered microphone input makes it possible to use studio grade microphones together with our camera and the 3,5mm Line-In port allows external mixers to be connected as well.
The headphone output provides monitor audio at all times of any of the selected inputs and the user can control the monitor volume via a potentiometer on the side of the camera.
The recording gain of any input is adjustable in 1dB increments, using a potentiometer on the side of the camera and a VU meter allows for easy adjustment of the input signal without overdriving the codec.
It is possible to disengage manual gain control and enable an internal AGC (Automatic Gain Control) where the maximum allowable gain is user programmable from 1x to 64x the input signal – this is useful when filming people talking etc.
Upcoming software upgrades will allow also the bass and treble to be adjustable in the same manner.
Every time the user inserts a new film into the camera, a unique folder is created on the SD-CARD for that specific film, and every time the user presses the record button a new ogg vorbis file is created containing the audio.

film_example.jpg

A log file is also constantly updated with information about each recording session containing the following information:

â–  Time and date of recording
â–  Lenght of recording in actual frames
â–  Starting frame and ending frame index

This way you can easily find the audio corresponding to your current take.

/Lasse

[Nicholas Kovats]

The detail is greatly appreciated, Lasse!

Can you possibly post an example of the actual log content as per your description? i.e.

"A log file is also constantly updated with information about each recording session containing the following information:

â–  Time and date of recording
â–  Lenght of recording in actual frames
â–  Starting frame and ending frame index"

You mentioned that both shutter parking and loading are controllable via ASCII commands. I am not clear as to the actual design/shape of the shutter. Are there variable sectors such that a shutter angle could be specified and controlled by your machine protocol? Have there been any measurements of the transport re: noise levels at 24fps?

As I suspected. A sustained effort revolving around a passion for film. Bravo to your team!