Call out for a new re-loadable Super 8 co-axial internal mag

[Nicholas Kovats]

I am aware that this general topic has been discussed in detail. My reasoning is to aggregate the prior threads and initiate new ideas.

The original Kodak 50ft co-axial injected molded Super 8 cartridge is now approximately 49 years old. The design lends itself well towards mass-production. But do we really need to be producing that much plastic? Taking into consideration the current economies of scale and availability of CNC machining/3D printing.

Proposed specs, i.e.

1. 50/100/200/400 lengths of single strand Super 8
2. left/right chamber doors
3. spring loaded pressure plate
4. metal/polycarbonate/resin body

I am willing to donate some defective Photo-Sonics 16mm 200/400ft co-axial magazines for examination and potential modeling. I would note that the Photo-Sonic magazines include the transport system as an integral part of the design but I happen to believe they are still relevant. Once they are preloaded it's simply lock and load as per it's smaller width sibling.

[Nicholas Kovats]

I would note that Wittner in Germany sells Super 8 film stock in "bulk", i.e. http://www.pro16mm.de/katalog/04_filmm/s8_meter.php

[dsl15746]

Hi Nicholas,

We've actually considered going "custom" with our camera (since we had the luxuary to design everything from scratch) and using much bigger rolls instead of the old kodak cartridge, but we finally opted out as we thourght it would be too much of a hassle (and also expensive) to get 8mm film loaded onto a custom reel and the obvious questions arise immidately:

where should one buy from?
who is willing to load it to the reel? (and do it cheaply)
could it ever compete in price with the casette (properly not)

Regards
Lasse

[Nicholas Kovats]

Hi Lasse,

Great to see your post.

For the record the stated "hassle" of loading is common to R8, 16, 35 and 65/70mm formats among keen enthusiasts, semi-pros and professional cinematographers. Re-loading a well designed co-axial magazine is not that hard. I am thinking of the excellent Arri SR series. For the die-hards it is second nature to load film in this manner and could potentially represent the majority of your customers. The "plug and play" crowd tends to favour easy reloads (current design) in $15 dollar Super cameras. It may be difficult to convince this type of user to invest in your projected costs.

However, the die-hards are currently salivating and that might include a few rental houses.

[aj]

What would the purpose be of a new cartridge?

There are now:

• Kodak standard (single piece from Wittner)
  Kodak modded 200ft
  Agfa emptied refurbished refilable
  Klose Cinevia
  Kaccema refillable
  Paul Cotto metal thing (one off?)
  Supermag 400
  Beaulieu SD-8 200ft
  Swiss extra supermag (vapourized)
  Luxembourg supermag

[carllooper]

Hi Nicholas,

We've actually considered going "custom" with our camera (since we had the luxuary to design everything from scratch) and using much bigger rolls instead of the old kodak cartridge, but we finally opted out as we thourght it would be too much of a hassle (and also expensive) to get 8mm film loaded onto a custom reel and the obvious questions arise immidately:

where should one buy from?
who is willing to load it to the reel? (and do it cheaply)
could it ever compete in price with the casette (properly not)

Regards
Lasse

I wouldn't be using preloaded magazines as the idea. From a consumer point of view I'd be, personally, much more interested in a reusable magazine (or three) that you could load up with film yourself. Just like you do in the 16mm/35mm universe. And I imagine others might like that idea as well. I'm sure it would turn out cheaper than carts. I don't know how/where you actually acquire Super8 filmstock on a generic reel but if there were a magazine capability for the camera I'd certainly find out how to source Super8 that way and do the loading myself.

I guess one could otherwise design and build a custom magazine and mod the camera.

The architecture of the camera looks amenable to modification for a top magazine, although the handle might be in an awkward location. What would be nice is a rear end magazine but that would require greater design change or major mod. You could just tweak the current design in such a way that allowed for the future addition of a top magazine, while also remaining cartridge usable.

But otherwise the cart only design is just fine. I'd still be happy to buy it. Carrying around a sack of carts is just as much fun.

Carl

[Nicholas Kovats]

Thanks for the archival list, AJ. I was not aware of the Swiss initiative. However, I fundamentally believe that the current dominant Kodak plastic cassette can be improved on in various areas. Be as it may that I curtail my instincts to improve, modify, question, optimize...ad infinitum.

What would the purpose be of a new cartridge?
[/list]

[Will2]

Would it be possible to create a metal Super 8 "mag" like an SR co-axial mag and have Kodak or Wittner sell 50' loads ready to load? Then you could have a metal pressure plate (like an SR mag).

Seems like a whole new camera system like Lasse is creating would make more sense but maybe go a step further and make it 100' daylight loads like 16mm. Maybe like those 8mm & 16mm cartridge cameras of the 40's & 50's. Double the time would be nice.

Or even 100' loads of double Super 8 that somehow could automatically run the other way and shift the film so you don't have to physically flip the cartridge…that would be a crazy long running time. Then throw a memory chip on the cartridge for audio.