Workprinter wattage needed for UK transformer

[PhilA]

I'm shortly taking delivery of a used Workprinter XP in the UK (thanks ebay!!). This is a 110V USA version so I have to buy a 240/110V step-down transformer for it. Can anyone tell me what the wattage or VA rating of the XP is so I can get the right transformer?

[granfer]

May vary between models. When it's delivered, look at the rating plate... and buy the next VA rating transformer above the figure.

[PhilA]

Thanks granfer but I was hoping someone here may know the Wattage/VA so I can start looking for a transformer in advance of delivery.

[aj]

I have real early imported 110v workprinter and I don't see a plate on it.
Wattage is low, one small bulb and a simple motor.

I run it from a 75watt converter and it doesn't blink
I.e. the workprinter runs fine and the converter doesn't get hot.

[MovieStuff]

I'm shortly taking delivery of a used Workprinter XP in the UK (thanks ebay!!). This is a 110V USA version so I have to buy a 240/110V step-down transformer for it. Can anyone tell me what the wattage or VA rating of the XP is so I can get the right transformer?

The problem is that people often assume their mains are 220VAC and that a simple stepping transformer will work fine. But the mains in Europe range anywhere from 228-256VAC so, in reality, a stepping transformer will output anywhere from 114-128VAC, all of which is too high for the original AC WorkPrinters which have motors with thinner windings for 60 cycles only. If you run a 60 cycle motor on 50 cycles, you need to reduce the incoming voltage to 108 volts WITH A LOAD or you risk the motor overheating. So a simple stepping transformer will not work. Most importantly, you simply can NOT trust the label on the transformer that says "Output 110 VAC" because it falsely presumes an input voltage of 220VAC, which has not existed in Europe for a long time.

So you need a regulated or variable transformer that will accurately output 108VAC under load.

And, before anyone asks, transformers do NOT change the cycle rate. There are no commercially available transformers that will do that to my knowledge. They only change the voltage.

Or, you can just purchase our DC motor kit which will replace the AC motor with a DC motor that runs off the internal universal DC power supply. The AC light bulb would still require a basic, cheap stepping transformer but that's no longer a problem since the universal power supply for the motor will accept anything from 100-256VAC at 50 or 60 cycles.

Better yet, just send the chassis to us to have it upgraded to the DC motor and LED light source and avoid the transformer altogether.

Roger

[granfer]

Actually, Roger, it is a common misconception amongst Americans that the UK mains voltage is, or was, 220volts. I am 75 years old this month and have been involved in electrical and electronic Engineering since I was 14. In all that time, I have NEVER known the OFFICIAL UK AC Mains Voltage to have been other than 240 volts (there have been variations from this in specific local areas, and I personally know of one area of Reading that was still on 200 volts DC up to about 40 years ago!).
Rationalization of the European voltages some years ago by the EU dictated that the Europe-wide Standard voltage should be 230 volts, with an allowed percentage either side. Since 240 volts falls within this allowance and our own UK tolerance was tighter anyway, the UK mains voltage has REMAINED at 240 volts and step-down transformers manufactured in the UK for the purpose of accommodating other Voltage Standards are designed for 240 volt input, not 220.
I find it surprising that any Manufacturer of equipments that are intended for World-Wide Sales that accommodate different World Voltages by means of fitting different transformers for different mains voltages would fit motors specifically designed for different frequencies. Certainly most projectors I have come across using AC motors make no discrimination between 50 and 60 HZ: where the rotational SPEED of the motor is affected by the frequency the drive provisions vary by pulley size, or ball position on a disc, in order to produce the correct projector speed.
I would not decry your product or it's concept, for which I have the GREATEST RESPECT, and I admire your obvious eye for business! No offence intended.

[MovieStuff]

Actually, Roger, it is a common misconception amongst Americans that the UK mains voltage is, or was, 220volts. I am 75 years old this month and have been involved in electrical and electronic Engineering since I was 14. In all that time, I have NEVER known the OFFICIAL UK AC Mains Voltage to have been other than 240 volts.....

I am sure you are quite correct. But, believe it or not, it is more of a misconception among my UK customers that their mains output 220. I have this conversation with them all the time. "Will your unit work here in the UK? We have 220, you know..." Whether it was ever 220, I don't personally know. I just know it isn't now and when I correct customers from the UK, they always say,"Oh. Well it WAS 220 at one time." So, anyway, that's the story.

Rationalization of the European voltages some years ago by the EU dictated that the Europe-wide Standard voltage should be 230 volts, with an allowed percentage either side.

Hence my statement about a range starting at about 228VAC.

Since 240 volts falls within this allowance and our own UK tolerance was tighter anyway, the UK mains voltage has REMAINED at 240 volts and step-down transformers manufactured in the UK for the purpose of accommodating other Voltage Standards are designed for 240 volt input, not 220.

But the labels on virtually all them still read "OUTPUT 110VAC". It is incredibly common. When we were selling our older WorkPrinters with the AC motor, arguing customers would often send me photos of their transformers to prove it to me that the output must be 110VAC because the label said it was. I would always tell them to use a meter and not trust the label. While I believe you that the UK mains are 240VAC on average, I have had customers in industrial areas measure the voltage from their mains as high as 256VAC.

I find it surprising that any Manufacturer of equipments that are intended for World-Wide Sales that accommodate different World Voltages by means of fitting different transformers for different mains voltages would fit motors specifically designed for different frequencies.

Agreed. I was very surprised when I found that GAF/Anscovision as well as Kodak slide projectors used windings meant only for 60 cycles. I suppose when you are making and shipping hundreds of thousands of units the extra metal of thicker windings for 50 cycles as well as the additional weight adds up to extra $$$. We currently do not sell our SlideStream units anywhere except in North America because the Kodak projectors won't handle the 50 cycle rate. We have built some for customers in the UK and Australia but they send us a projector that has the 50 cycle motor with heavier windings.

Certainly most projectors I have come across using AC motors make no discrimination between 50 and 60 HZ: where the rotational SPEED of the motor is affected by the frequency the drive provisions vary by pulley size, or ball position on a disc, in order to produce the correct projector speed.

That's right. The Eiki projectors will work fine on both 50 and 60 cycles and have a two position pulley for that purpose. But GAF and Kodak and others did not always allow for dual cycle rates in their product line.

I would not decry your product or it's concept, for which I have the GREATEST RESPECT, and I admire your obvious eye for business! No offence intended.

Oh, no offense taken.

Roger

[PhilA]

Wow, didn't realise this was so controversial, but thanks all for your thoughts especially André for pretty much answering the question, and Roger for reminding me of the significance of 50/60Hz.

You've all prompted me to check the wiki to see what the EU actually is in terms of voltage range; there's plenty of info there of which this seems pretty definitive http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_elec ... ardization. Basically, althought many voltages may be found in the EU they should all lie within 230 V ± 6% (216-244) at 50 Hz; Note that is neither 220 nor 240 but includes both. Also this is the nominal supply voltage, the actual voltage at the equipment will be a little lower due to voltage drop in the building wiring. US and Canada is supposed to fall within 120 V ± 5% (114-126) at 60 Hz. It is the responsibility of equipment manufacturers to see that their gear operates over the full appropriate range (EU or US).

As far as I understand the principle of the workprinter, or more specifically its software, I don't think 50/60th slowing of the motor over here in UK should be an issue - is that correct?

Sounds if I will be doing a little experimentation to see if a voltage dropper is needed to get the motor voltage low enough.

Thanks for your offer of an upgrade Roger, but I fear the cost of shipping twice across the pond is uneconomic, considering the vintage of this model from both cost and shipping duration. Is it possible to buy the parts and fit myself, I am quite competent in that area? Also for the Velocity kit.

I would also like to try converting it to HD and will be reading up some threads about that on here.

Phil
PS, I have inherited 3000' of 16mm amateur film too - anyone in the UK got an old 16mm workprinter kit to sell?