Using small apertures?

[mr_x]

Hi,

Technical question: I want to shoot some studio based, small objects with a macro lens but keep as much depth of field as possible. This will mean overriding the auto aperture and setting it somewhere between f8 to f16 or something. Obviously I'd be using a rock steady tripod. Is this going to be okay? I'd be using Tri-X which is ASA200. What problems might I discover when the film is developed please?

Thanks,

Ric

[Lunar07]

If you want to use f8 and f16, it is no problem. You just have to provide enough lighting. This is why I do not understand your condition that you want to override auto exposure. Is auto exposure showing for example f5.6 or 4? If you use f8 or f16 you'll gain some 1mm in depth of field or so, but you'll have underexposure.

Hi,

Technical question: I want to shoot some studio based, small objects with a macro lens but keep as much depth of field as possible. This will mean overriding the auto aperture and setting it somewhere between f8 to f16 or something. Obviously I'd be using a rock steady tripod. Is this going to be okay? I'd be using Tri-X which is ASA200. What problems might I discover when the film is developed please?

Thanks,

Ric

[Patrick]

Hi,

What problems might I discover when the film is developed please?

Thanks,

Ric

I can think of one possible problem - diffraction - which occurs at small apertures and reveals itself as a slight softening of the image. However, you're lucky that you're shooting close ups. This is because close ups generally appear sharper than mid shots and long shots so this might counter-act the effects of diffraction, making your footage look quite respectable.

[RenFra]

Ah, this is a discussion of the old school of photography! How to gain depth of field by manipulating diaphragm settings. I have a question: what camera are you going to use and what lens does it have?

[Patrick]

Hmmmm.

[Lunar07]

You will not gain much depth of field with small formats as you close aperture in macro mode. Also, with Super8 you'll soon run into diffraction effects as you go into higher f-stops. Also, the gain in depth of field depends on the magnification of the macro mode he is using. Cameras came with a manual and a sheet/card. The sheet detailed the depth of field at different f-stops for the partuclar magnification of the lens macro mode. The more magnification the less depth of field (which is not much to start with). I assumed that mr_x does not have such a sheet

mr_x should do following:
shoot the setup at different f-stops with good lighting. Start with the camera in auto mode. Then reshoot changing the f-stop up to 2 stops giving it more light. Get the footage and determine what is best. A way of getting to know the camera and the lens in macro mode. And always keep the main object in the fousing plane.

If you are into macro photography - try to get the 'Close Up Photography' book from the Kodak Workshop Series. This is an indispensaible refeerence.
If, in addition, you are shooting frame by frame in macro, get a flash like Vivtar 285HV with the Thyristor cable that comes with it. You will not regret that. In addtion get 'Flash Photography' from the Kodak Workshop Series. That particular Vivtar flash, in frame by frame shooting, can determine via the Thyristor unit, the amount of light to fill in in macro mode.

Ah, this is a discussion of the old school of photography! How to gain depth of field by manipulating diaphragm settings. I have a question: what camera are you going to use and what lens does it have?

[mr_x]

Ah, many kind thanks! This is 'trick' photography. I need to film the sails of a model windmill turning, but I only want the sails, not the mill (much). So i will paint the mill matt black and the sails matt white, and film the mill against a black ground. You see my dilemma, if I shine a studio light on the mill I lose my black ground. I may be able to angle a light on the sails to pick them out, but illumination is going to be difficult.

My only reliable remaining Super 8 camera is a Nizo S801. The lens specs are here:
http://nizocamera.com/nizo-801-macro-st ... -p-69.html

I also bought a set of close-up filters for it some time ago.

How is all this looking so far please?

Thanks again,

Ric

[Lunar07]

So, why did you want as much depth of field as possible? To shoot the sails from different angles?
If so, do not use high magnification close up lenses. This depends on the size of the sails to start with.
Also, have you considered using compositing? as in matting or bluescreens?
Long time ago, Roger Evans (moviestuff) posted a link on the process of using miniatures and make them look life size against a regular background (street, house, etc......). i wish I can find this post. I read it at the time and left it behind since it is not my area of expertise.
Maybe if you send him a PM, he would remember that particular post and send you the link. It would give you ideas.

Ah, many kind thanks! This is 'trick' photography. I need to film the sails of a model windmill turning, but I only want the sails, not the mill (much). So i will paint the mill matt black and the sails matt white, and film the mill against a black ground. You see my dilemma, if I shine a studio light on the mill I lose my black ground. I may be able to angle a light on the sails to pick them out, but illumination is going to be difficult.

My only reliable remaining Super 8 camera is a Nizo S801. The lens specs are here:
http://nizocamera.com/nizo-801-macro-st ... -p-69.html

I also bought a set of close-up filters for it some time ago.

How is all this looking so far please?

Thanks again,

Ric

[mr_x]

So, why did you want as much depth of field as possible? To shoot the sails from different angles?
If so, do not use high magnification close up lenses. This depends on the size of the sails to start with.
Also, have you considered using compositing? as in matting or bluescreens?
Long time ago, Roger Evans (moviestuff) posted a link on the process of using miniatures and make them look life size against a regular background (street, house, etc......). i wish I can find this post. I read it at the time and left it behind since it is not my area of expertise.
Maybe if you send him a PM, he would remember that particular post and send you the link. It would give you ideas.

Yes, I wanted the sails sideways on or it will be boring, just having the sails filling the picture frame square on. I see what you mean, use telephoto to zoom in, which will lose less depth of field than macro?

Will check out Roger at Moviestuff with thanks,

Ric

[Lunar07]

No, not telephoto or zooming in. If you use low magnification close up lenses and google the depth of field of such lenses in combination with an optimal size of the sails, you can get a decent depth of field that would allow you to show the sails sideways. Problem with telephoto is that it may crush out the depth of the sails sideways. It flattens the perspective that is.

Also, try to get the depth of field chart of your camera in macro mode. These came with the manuals. These are indispensable for what you want to do. For example: My Eumig Vinnette 8 manual has a sheet detailing the macro range of the lens: The list details depth of field at different apertures AND FOR DIFFERENT WIDTHS OF SUBJECT FIELDS.
As in: ****What is the diameter of the sails?
****As I mentioned to you before: Try it out with different apertures and with light from a diffused LED light source.
****Have your setting in the middle of a very dark room so the only thing that will appear are the sails lighted appropriately. Since everything else will be thrown out of focus. This is like taking a picture of someone in the middle of a field at a dark night using a flash. The only thing you'll see in the picture is the person with black around them.

So, why did you want as much depth of field as possible? To shoot the sails from different angles?
If so, do not use high magnification close up lenses. This depends on the size of the sails to start with.
Also, have you considered using compositing? as in matting or bluescreens?
Long time ago, Roger Evans (moviestuff) posted a link on the process of using miniatures and make them look life size against a regular background (street, house, etc......). i wish I can find this post. I read it at the time and left it behind since it is not my area of expertise.
Maybe if you send him a PM, he would remember that particular post and send you the link. It would give you ideas.

Yes, I wanted the sails sideways on or it will be boring, just having the sails filling the picture frame square on. I see what you mean, use telephoto to zoom in, which will lose less depth of field than macro?

Will check out Roger at Moviestuff with thanks,

Ric

[mr_x]

No, not telephoto or zooming in ... it may crush out the depth of the sails sideways. Have your setting in the middle of a very dark room so the only thing that will appear are the sails lighted appropriately. Since everything else will be thrown out of focus. This is like taking a picture of someone in the middle of a field at a dark night using a flash. The only thing you'll see in the picture is the person with black around them.

Thanks Lunar07,

Brilliant idea!

There is a table for the 801 but i am useless at mathematics. The three close-up adaptors have minimum distance-to-subject of 5', 2'6', 1.6' with scales of 1:9.5, 1:6.5, 1:4.8 respectively.

Mind you my adaptors are Kood not Nizo so goodness knows. I use them for close-ups of titles and details of still images, and so forth. They work really well, i'd often be lost without them.

Can i not mount a bright torch to pick out the sails, or will that be too bright / cause problems - image distortion?

Thanks again

Ric

[mr_x]

ps. it says in the S800 manual that the tables for these lenses came with the actual Nizo lenses. My S800 is defunct btw, motor won't go any more