Crystal Sync question about Zoom H4n or even Marantz PMD660

[Arislan]

Howdy folks,

I'm completely new to filming with sound. I have a Canon 814XL and an Eclair NPR for 16mm which I'm thinking of sending to Bernie for Ultra 16 conversion. I'd love to know how to get sync sound if I'm using something like the H4n. I already own a Marantz PMD-660 which I bought back in 2005 I think. Back then I was getting into film but life got complicated and I never moved forward. I'm actually done moving around the globe for now and want to film with actual film again. So how would I accomplish sync sound using one of the aforementioned recorders, and either the Super 8 or 16mm cameras? Should I get rid of the Marantz and get an H4n instead? Would love some input, thanks!

[beamascope]

I wish I could help but my comment can give this a bump. I'm sure somebody here knows the answer. The last time I shot crystal sync it was with a CP16 and a reel to reel Nagra back in 1990 or so.

[Arislan]

Thanks for the bump. I was told that the digital audio recorders already record at constant speed and would only need to slate my takes.

The one curious thing is the camera speed though. My Eclair has a crystal motor that you can switch between 24 and 25fps. I wonder if that 24 is actually 23.976fps?

[Scotness]

First of all I don't know how the Marantz compares to the H4N - but I have an H4N and I think they're the ducks nuts, so I'd certainly recommend them - but if the Marantz works fine why spend the extra money?

Anyway the point in crystal synching is that each device actually records at a rock solid rate with no wow or flutter -- each of those electronic audio recorders will, but the motors on the cameras won't hence the need to govern them with a crystal control.

Once you've done that just slate it at the start on your NLE -- make your wave form visible and look for the big peak at the clap and line that up with the clapper bar coming down on the slate and everything from then on will be in sycnh.

Don't know about the 24//23.97 question sorry.

I had a 4008ZMII with a 25fps crystal synch and I used a minidisc recorder and it worked fine.

Best of luck

Scot

[Wade]

I concur with what has been replied so far. I'm not a recording engineer, but if both camera and recorder operate at a constant speed you should be ok regardless of the speed with which each unit is running. The H4n itself has three "speeds" or sampling frequencies, 44.1/48/96kHz. Regarding the synchronization process you should be able to use any of these frequencies of your recorder and still get perfect sync with your camera. For sync purposes it doesn't matter if your camera runs at 24 or 25fps or any other speed for that matter, as long as it is absolutely constant and you are able to play it back at the same constant speed. I believe the Eclair's crystal controlled motor runs at 60hz for 24 fps, and 50hz for 25 fps. Both settings should yield constant speeds if each speed is crystal controlled. Your selection of either speed is only determined by whether you want NTSC or PAL output--as I'm sure you know. (I believe the 24fps setting is supposed to be exactly 24fps, not 29.97fps.) Either way you just have to sync up your slate on your timeline and it should be ok for the duration of the shot. Your computer interpolates the speed of your camera according to your settings of NTSC or PAL. That's the theory anyway.

[Scotness]

Yep everything Wade said too!

Scot

[Wade]

OOPS, I'm so used to thinking 29.97fps--I meant to say the camera runs at 24fps not 23.967. It's not probable some one put a 23.967 crystal in the motor.